Thread: Article: Thoughts on the Twins? One baseball agent's perspective on Minnesota's front office
11-08-2013, 08:21 AM #1
Article: Thoughts on the Twins? One baseball agent's perspective on Minnesota's front
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=...s-front-office
11-08-2013, 08:47 AM #2
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Good article Parker. It would be interesting to read a similar article with Scott Boras since he seems to be on the opposite side of the spectrum in his industry.
11-08-2013, 08:51 AM #3
I predict three pat responses:
1) See, I told you so! The Twins front office and organization as a whole is great and well respected.
2) All this story does is confirm my opinions that the Twins are still mired back in the dark ages, completely out of touch with the reality of modern baseball.
3) It's nice to hear praise coming from an unlikely source, but I am still frustrated with the rebuild and won't be happy until we field a winner.
P.S I enjoyed the article, thanks for writing it.
Last edited by Joe A. Preusser; 11-08-2013 at 08:52 AM. Reason: P.S.
11-08-2013, 08:56 AM #4
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That was a really fascinating read, much different than the usual. Thanks. (And still hoping they spring for JJ.)
11-08-2013, 09:30 AM #5
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The article fits with what we know about the Twins. Loyalty above all else. When they sign someone they totally stand behind them and give them every opportunity to succeed. They don't easily give up on players or coaches as they believe in the people they have. It is an admirable trait but when so few play that way it makes it harder compete and harder to change with the times. Nice article and nice to know doing the right thing can pay off once in awhile.
11-08-2013, 09:39 AM #6
Joe A, to your points:
1.) It is a bad thing? I don't think there was ever any question about this fact.
2.) I don't know how loyalty and being honorable and such is "old school." If that's not current, it says more about society and that's not good.
3.) I get the frustration, but be happy about other stuff! I'ts just baseball... :-)
Parker, great article, and thank you to Matt for taking his time too.
I like all three of these pitchers. I'm leery of Johnson, but I'm less leery because he finally did have a surgery. Nolasco was always supposed to take that next big step. He was good last year, for sure. Not sure the 5 years, $80M price tag would be worth it, but I'd go 4/55 or something. And, I had Messenger in my blueprint. I'd like to see a 2 year with an option on him as the offer.
I also didn't think about Kepler until reading this. We can bash those things like loyalty and honor and thinking about a person's PERSONAL development (even beyond baseball), but that name and recognition that Mr. Radcliff and others have garnered got them the likes of Kepler and Sano too.
11-08-2013, 09:46 AM #7
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Why would a player's agency ever publicly trash a team or it's front office? This is a PR puff-piece. That being, it doesn't mean the Twins (or it's people) aren't first-rate--the article means that this guy (Sosnick) understands the value of "sweet words" (which is a prerequisite for an agent).
11-08-2013, 10:21 AM #8
Agreed that it's probably mostly a puff piece. He has multiple clients here now and he represents multiple free agent pitchers this offseason. I know it's always fun to talk to these "inside baseball" types, but I would have been shocked if he had said anything other than this.
Did you ask him about specifics in the Willingham and Kepler deals? Not teams obviously, but dollar amounts? That would be valuable information. Exactly how much more were the other offers? In the case of Willingham, was it more per year, for fewer years, or did it involve options, incentives, etc.?
I am sure that players sometime sign with teams that don't offer the highest total contract value or highest AAV, but I would be shocked if the true money difference ever exceeded ~10% max. Just like bang-bang calls at first, it can go either way but you still have to run and make it close. I suspect the Twins often don't even make an offer to free agents, or when they're forced to, they make a lowball one (remember when Torii Hunter first hit free agency?).
11-08-2013, 10:21 AM #9Why would a player's agency ever publicly trash a team or it's front office? This is a PR puff-piece.
Do people who are being interviewed on the record speaking towards things that would benefit themselves or their interests? Absolutely. Sosnick may have been saying things to keep things smooth for future negotiations just like Ryan was not going to bash Gardenhire or Molitor. That said, I do believe Sosnick's comments reflect things I have heard from people across the industry: The Twins are a respected organization in baseball. It may not be viewed the same from a fan's perspective when you consider the on-field product as of late but insiders seem to agree that the Twins are a good organization across-the-board.
11-08-2013, 10:24 AM #10Did you ask him about specifics in the Willingham and Kepler deals? Not teams obviously, but dollar amounts? That would be valuable information. Exactly how much more were the other offers? In the case of Willingham, was it more per year, for fewer years, or did it involve options, incentives, etc.?
In the case of Willingham, it was same years, more dollars.
11-08-2013, 10:30 AM #11
Also, my working theory is that TR and the Twins don't like to work with "outsiders" -- this means players, coaches, and staff from other organizations, but also agents in general. By making few offers, and only targeting low-salary low-interest players, they pretty much minimize the role of the agent (no competitive bidding, lower dollar differences, player preferences more important, etc). Bill Smith seemed to work out of that comfort zone internationally at least (Sano and Kepler were both his), and TR has to deal with agents less now due to draft and international spending caps, but I suspect it still holds true in the domestic (and Cuban and Asian) free agent markets. Would love to see if they could work out of that comfort zone finally to make the team better faster than drafting/developing alone.
I wonder if the Twins have worked more with some agents rather than others? I know a lot of agency info is out there, it would be cool to see a breakdown of it.
11-08-2013, 10:41 AM #12
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A fan's perspective is always so much different than those that aren't emotionally attached to the team. We tend to tear down our greats, because we see their areas of weakness instead of appreciating their excellence (see: Joe Mauer). We also can be blindly optimistic at the beginning of a season, because we see the "potential" for this club to turn it around this year (this tends to be fading considerably fter three straight 90+ loss seasons). We as fan's take it personal, we look through a different set of lenses than someone that can actually be unbiased and take the emotion out of a situation or the team.
Great piece, Parker.
11-08-2013, 10:53 AM #13
TR was once quoted that Correia also "left money on the table" -- has it ever been confirmed what that meant? Was he really offered more than $10 million guaranteed?
Why is it that the Twins two biggest outside free agent signings ever (Willingham and Correia) apparently both "left money on the table" to come here (despite being in a class of "budget" FAs to begin with)? Has TR ever been the high bidder for anyone?
11-08-2013, 11:06 AM #14It's valuable because "leaving money on the table" can mean lots of different things -- AAV vs total dollars, for one difference.
11-08-2013, 11:40 AM #15
11-08-2013, 12:18 PM #16
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Do you think puting Kepler in the AFL had anything to do with these 3 pitchers?
11-08-2013, 12:47 PM #17Do you think puting Kepler in the AFL had anything to do with these 3 pitchers?
11-08-2013, 01:35 PM #18
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I enjoyed this article, and while there's a "puff piece" aspect to it, there's probably some genuine respect there too. When you make statements like "There's no GM I respect more than Terry Ryan" you are going above and beyond in lavishing your praise. If the respect wasn't genuine, he would say "I respect Terry Ryan", especially since he basically says he has more respect for Ryan than all of his counterparts.
I'd echo what someone else said, but if Boras wrote the same piece, I really am curious what he'd say...
11-08-2013, 01:38 PM #19
if the twins sign any player, I don't understand why we are so concerned about who else bid what. The twins got the guy they wanted. WWhether it was dollars or how much the intangibles played into it, who cares?as was stated in the story, each player's reasoning is different. For some it might be just money and years.for others, trust and other intangibles, maybe geography is what matters.
11-08-2013, 01:52 PM #20
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