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Thread: Adrian Beltre – Hall of Famer?

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    Adrian Beltre – Hall of Famer?

    I don’t really hear too much brought up about the stellar career Adrian Beltre is amassing.

    We have always know that he is a stellar defender at 3B, but I wonder if our minds are entrenched in his ho-hum Seattle Mariners years. Although these years with the Mariners were primarily his “prime years”, he has produced 4 consecutive fantastic seasons playing for the Red Sox and Texas Rangers.

    At this juncture in time, I view Safeco Field oppositely of Coors Field. Safeco is a hitters nightmare, whether that is because of the dimensions of the park, the marine environment, or the bad Juju of ten years of offensive stagnation coming from that ballpark. On this I give Beltre a Mulligan. If some will penalize a player for having a great career at an uber hitters friendly ballpark, I believe a player who is in the exact opposite environment should be cut some slack.

    From the list I put together. Hoping my resources are correct, Beltre is ranked 8th in career WAR for a third baseman – behind the following:


    1. Mike Schmidt
    2. Eddie Matthews
    3. George Brett
    4. Chipper Jones
    5. Brooks Robinson
    6. Paul Molitor
    7. Ron Santo


    Note: A-Rod would be #1 on this list, but has still played more games at SS than 3B. Paul Molitor played a boat load at DH – If anyone wants to keep him in or keep him out as a third baseman, I am chill with that.

    I recognize the value of sabremetrics, but I still believe that a great amount of counting stats are important as well as character and tenacity on the field of play. Beltre has 376 HR’s and 2,426 Hits, to go along with 4 gold gloves, I am not too sure about his character or tenacity, but going into his age 35 season, Beltre has 400 HR’s all but wrapped up and has a fair shot at reaching 3,000 hits before it is all said and done.

    Adrian Beltre may not have the superstar designation that a guy like Chipper Jones has/had, but he is just about as good or equal.

    Adrian Beltre is a National Baseball Hall of Famer.
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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    In his favor, his last name anagrams to Belter.

    I have trouble getting excited about him, though. To me it's not a hall of Stats, it's a hall of Fame, and I'm fine with it being partly subjective. But he's got some more time to win me over.

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    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Never even gave it a thought, but I would say he definitely has a case. Especially if he has 3 or 4 good seasons left in him.

    Of course, like Jeff Bagwell, he'll be penalized for possibly taking steroids. Unlike Bagwell, it seems pretty likely Beltre did. And I still don't care. Too bad the HoF voters are obsessed with it.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Beltre is young and talented enough to get to 500 HR, 600 2B, 3000 hits, 1500 runs and 1500 RBI. He's also one of the best defensive third basemen ever and has a famous distaste for people touching his head. I say he's in.
    Last edited by Brad Swanson; 11-02-2013 at 04:46 PM. Reason: ASPCA commercial distracted my spelling
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    Depends

    Let's see how he finishes his career. Borderline right now. Santo was elected by the veterans' committee. Also who knows how the writers will feel about his linkage to PEDs in 8-10 years when he will be up for election.

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    He came up when he was 19 so he has a pretty huge head start with the counting stats. He's only 35, playing great defense and less than 600 hits from 3,000. I think the odds are strongly in his favor that he gets there.

    Even if he comes up short of the big milestones like Andre Dawson, I think he gets in as his defense is regarded as elite.

    However, I feel the same about him as Ashbury does in that he just doesn't feel elite in his time. That has a tendency to change though once guys start approaching the milestones. Eddie Murray and Paul Molitor come to mind from past generations that seemed to be great but not elite players until they were approaching the end.

    Edit: I must have forgotten about his linkage to PED's. Was it back with the Dodgers? Or are we just making assumptions? If there is a legit link, he's not getting in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Edit: I must have forgotten about his linkage to PED's. Was it back with the Dodgers? Or are we just making assumptions? If there is a legit link, he's not getting in.
    Nick - I was not aware of his linkage to PEDs either up until the last few minutes. It appears his link to PEDs is Eric Gagne's book "Game over, the story of Eric Gagne". Gagne claims that 80% of his teammates with the Dodgers used them. No names were given and Beltre has been on the record as saying he was not one of them... who knows?
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    If he's clean of PEDs (I had no idea he was even linked)

    I didn't see his name in the Mitchell report.

    List of Major League Baseball players named in the Mitchell Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The guy was a young stud. At age 18 he dominated the minor leagues and was a legit player by the time he was 20 in MLB.

    Great defense, 1500 RBIs, 400 HRs, and possibly 3,000 hits? If he gets the 3,000 and PED free, absolutely. If he gets 2,800 hits. Yes, by his 3rd yr of eligibility.

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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    He'd get my vote right now, anything he does from here on is just icing.
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    I absolutely think he should be. The only thing, in my mind, that hurts him is that he isn't talked about nationally as much as he should be.

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    Fred McGriff can't even get in the HOF. Beltre will have to have 500 HR and 3000 hits to stand a chance of making it in. Had he carried Texas on his back to a WS win and followed it up with another run he wouldn't need astronomical numbers. In this day and age of needing to be wowed, he might take an election campaign

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    He'd get my vote right now, anything he does from here on is just icing.
    Not that Bill James's similarity scores are official or anything, but take a look at Beltre's "most similar to" list on b-r.com, and compare to his "most similar through age 34" list. As it stands, he's ranked with members of the Hall Of Very Good, but he's on track to be an Outer (Not Inner) Circle HOFer if he can keep going at his present pace. To me, this confirms my view that he doesn't pass the (What If He Got Hit By A) Bus Test.

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    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Fred McGriff can't even get in the HOF. Beltre will have to have 500 HR and 3000 hits to stand a chance of making it in. Had he carried Texas on his back to a WS win and followed it up with another run he wouldn't need astronomical numbers. In this day and age of needing to be wowed, he might take an election campaign
    Beltre plays a premium defensive position at an elite level, while McGriff was a 1B. That really separates those two, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    Beltre plays a premium defensive position at an elite level, while McGriff was a 1B. That really separates those two, in my opinion.
    Yeah,I do not disagree with you, but how many are in the hall because they could play defense.

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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Not that Bill James's similarity scores are official or anything, but take a look at Beltre's "most similar to" list on b-r.com, and compare to his "most similar through age 34" list. As it stands, he's ranked with members of the Hall Of Very Good, but he's on track to be an Outer (Not Inner) Circle HOFer if he can keep going at his present pace. To me, this confirms my view that he doesn't pass the (What If He Got Hit By A) Bus Test.
    Those scores give him zero credit for being one of the game's historically elite defenders at third.

    I call shenanigans.
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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Last edited by snepp; 11-03-2013 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Those scores give him zero credit for being one of the game's historically elite defenders at third.

    I call shenanigans.
    The tool does, by hook or by crook, pair him up with Gaetti, Rolen, and Santo, none of whom were considered shabby with the leather. Rolen could get in, Santo's already in (by the epidermis of his molars).

    Beltre's in good company, and could get in; I'm not ready to proclaim he's IN.

  18. #18
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Houston, did not copy; over.

  19. #19
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Beltre's in good company, and could get in; I'm not ready to proclaim he's IN.
    That's certainly fair*.






    *even though you're wrong!
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  20. #20

    Question Adrian Beltre, Hall of Famer?

    4 Gold Gloves
    4 Top 10 MVP Finishes
    72 Career WAR (from baseball-reference)

    Closing in on 2500 hits and 400 HRs.

    1st ballot? 2nd ballot?

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