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Thread: Baseball America ranks Twins' system 7th

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Baseball America ranks Twins' system 7th

    Matt Eddy of Baseball America posted an article today where he used a points-based system to rank the farm systems of all 30 MLB teams. The Twins ranked seventh on his list, which is a little disappointing IMO. Here's what he had to say:

    Minnesota’s system mirrors the Cubs in that all the strength is tied up in position-player talent, though the Twins did have some big arms such as Meyer and far-away talents like RHP Jose Berrios (13 MWL) and LHP Lewis Thorpe (7 GCL).
    The Future Is Now: Top Farm Systems Poised To Deliver Near-Term Value - BaseballAmerica.com

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    Insofar as there IS an annual 'Baseball America' ranking of minor league farm systems, I think your title is a little disingenuous. It should have correctly referred to Matt Eddy FROM Baseball America ranks Twins system 7th... but I would guess you already knew that, but chose to stir the pot (or poke the animals) anyway!

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    Yeah, agree with TRex, this ranking was based solely on league top 20 rankings which isn't clear in your post. And even on this 5-7 were basically tied. And the Rangers list included Profar. I suspect that when the real BA list comes out, the Twins will be a top 4 system.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    If I interpret correctly, he was ranking systems on talent that will help in the near term, so guys in the upper minors primarily. When you consider the dearth of pitching talent at the upper levels of the Twins system, 7 sounds like a pretty good number to me.

  5. #5
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Well, this is just an aggregate of their Top 20 lists (the chart is titled: FARM SYSTEM STRENGTH BASED ON LEAGUE TOP 20 RANKINGS), and, evidently, does not reflect the depth of prospects beyond those lists. So I'm not sure this list reflects BA's actual ranking of the league's farm systems.

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    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    It's not quite aggregate, though in that it is weighted towards the upper minors. Multiplying the players ranking by 4 if in AAA, down to 1 if in low A. Since the Twins top players are all below the AAA level, they naturally don't rank at the very top. I think for what he was trying to do, seven is a pretty accurate slot for the Twins, based upon BA's rankings.

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    This is a really simple calculated ranking that is only looking at 5 prospects (and graduated prospects) from each org and doesn't include recent draft picks or top rk ball talents. Additionally Buxton and Sano don't score in the top ten of assets since they were playing in leagues further away from the majors than other players even though they aren't that far away.

    It's difficult to even get upset considering how simple of a list it is. However it is amazing how strong some of these farm systems are. Top 3 isn't even guaranteed.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think that the Twins will rank a bit higher, though when the "real" rankings come out, don't forget that Hicks, Gibson and Arcia (all Top 100 guys) 'graduated' from the realms of "prospects." So, don't be surprised if it's not as high. I have to think that Houston will be #1, but I think the Twins could be anywhere from 2-6.

  9. #9
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Being ranked 7th isn't a slight, and organizational rankings should be weighted on the upper minors. Having some good prospects who are multiple years away from debuting in the majors is no guarantee of anything.

  10. #10
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    Not only are the Twins at a disadvantage with the high value of AAA rankings, they are also at a disadvantage as the rankings are also skewed heavily in favor of pitching, SS and catching, though perhaps rightfully so.

    Edit: Additionally, from the rules I remember when those rankings came out, none of the Twins pitching prospects from last draft counted as they did not pitch enough innings. Things might look differently had Stewart and Gonsalves not been excluded. They surely won't when it comes to the real evaluation.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    In a couple months when people like Keith Law, Jonathan Mayo and others do their rankings, I don't see the Twins falling out of the top 3. They have 2 elite prospects and a pretty deep system beyond that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by righty8383 View Post
    In a couple months when people like Keith Law, Jonathan Mayo and others do their rankings, I don't see the Twins falling out of the top 3. They have 2 elite prospects and a pretty deep system beyond that.
    My guess is #3 would be the highest. You're right that they have some nice top talent but the Cubs and Astros have a lot of depth. I think they have to be the top 2 right now. Maybe the Red Sox if Bogaerts is still a "prospect" for these things. Then the Twins, Pirates and maybe Cards come into play.

    In John Sickels end of the season rankings, he had 6 Cubs, Astros and Pirates in his top 75. 5 Twins and 5 Red Sox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Yeah, I think that the Twins will rank a bit higher, though when the "real" rankings come out, don't forget that Hicks, Gibson and Arcia (all Top 100 guys) 'graduated' from the realms of "prospects." So, don't be surprised if it's not as high. I have to think that Houston will be #1, but I think the Twins could be anywhere from 2-6.
    Seth, who are your 1-6 teams? You don't need to rank them, I'm just curious who you have in the conversation. I think the top-5 are pretty set (alphabetically: Astros, Cubs, Pirates, Red Sox, Twins), but then I see some separation to the next tier (Cardinals, Dodgers, Royals). I'm probably forgetting some team or teams...

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    I agree with most people here. The Twins will end up in the 3-5 range with the Astros (1), Cubs (2), Red Sox, and Pirates. I think the next set of teams include Royals, Rays, Mets and Dodgers.

    I think the Marlins probably have more young talent than any team, they just push it to the majors so quickly. If you add Jose Fernandez (20 yo), Yelich (21 yo) and Stanton (23 yo) to their "prospect" list they are the clear cut #1 team. That doesn't even include the other 5 or so players 25 or younger that were top 100 prospects at some point and are currently on their major league roster. They are absolutely chalk full of young talent.

    I think I'm in the minority but I don't really like the Cards system. I would put them somewhere in the middle. #18 +/- 5. Remember they graduated around 4 top 100 players this season. That said, they do a great job helping guys improve so I have no doubt they will churn out some solid players that I currently don't like.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I would question the Eddy's not even mentioning Stewart when he mentions far-away arms. He is the top-ranked pitcher in the system in my book.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    I think I'm in the minority but I don't really like the Cards system. I would put them somewhere in the middle. #18 +/- 5. Remember they graduated around 4 top 100 players this season. That said, they do a great job helping guys improve so I have no doubt they will churn out some solid players that I currently don't like.
    Well, the Cards still have Taveras who is one of the few prospects who could, if healthy, push Buxton for #1 overall. And Wong and Martinez are still considered prospects for next years purposes, although both have basically graduated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    My guess is #3 would be the highest. You're right that they have some nice top talent but the Cubs and Astros have a lot of depth. I think they have to be the top 2 right now. Maybe the Red Sox if Bogaerts is still a "prospect" for these things. Then the Twins, Pirates and maybe Cards come into play.

    In John Sickels end of the season rankings, he had 6 Cubs, Astros and Pirates in his top 75. 5 Twins and 5 Red Sox.
    During the middle of the season I thought the Twins were a definite #1 but them being in the 3-5 range has nothing to do with prospect disappointments but everything to do with just how ridiculous the Cubs and Astros systems are becoming. Bogaerts still qualifies for the Sox but Gerrit Cole doesn't so I don't think they are top 5 w/o him.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    During the middle of the season I thought the Twins were a definite #1 but them being in the 3-5 range has nothing to do with prospect disappointments but everything to do with just how ridiculous the Cubs and Astros systems are becoming. Bogaerts still qualifies for the Sox but Gerrit Cole doesn't so I don't think they are top 5 w/o him.
    The Pirates have 3 potential top of the rotation arms, not including Cole, and top 10 positional prospects at OF, SS and Catcher. Six players ranked in Sickels' end of season top 75 prospects list. They also have another 5 players probably in the 100-200 range. There is plenty of talent here to warrant a top 5 system ranking.

    Who do you think should replace them in the top 5?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Well, the Cards still have Taveras who is one of the few prospects who could, if healthy, push Buxton for #1 overall. And Wong and Martinez are still considered prospects for next years purposes, although both have basically graduated.
    And what else? Those are 2 premier players and a really nice one. Once you get past that they have a bunch of question marks. If Gonzalez, Jenkins, Kaminsky all pan out and Gast returns to form from his injury they could move up quickly but at this point they are all too iffy to rate the system very highly.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    And what else? Those are 2 premier players and a really nice one. Once you get past that they have a bunch of question marks. If Gonzalez, Jenkins, Kaminsky all pan out and Gast returns to form from his injury they could move up quickly but at this point they are all too iffy to rate the system very highly.
    Well, frankly, after the top 5 or so teams, just having two premier players is going to get you ranked pretty high. Looking at Sickels lists, those prospects are not evenly distributed. Just looking at other teams with a top 20 guy, Seattle has 3 in the rankings (4, 75 and ?? for the injured pitcher) so do the Indians and Mets but the Cards look better than all 3. A's have one player (Russell at 15 but nothing after him), so do the Tigers. Rockies have 2. Royals have 4. I think Cards, with two premier guys in the top 20, should pretty easily slot into most top 10 rankings.

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