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Thread: The dreaded return of Butera

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    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    The dreaded return of Butera

    Gardy is already making a public case from bringing back a third catcher. The article is basically pleading the case for bringing Butera back to the 25-man roster.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...tnerId=rss_min

    Full disclosure: Gardy never said Butera's name, he just said "the third catcher situation."
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
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    Noooooooooooo!

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    Member Single-A
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    Targeting Butera

    Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11).

    Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Interesting quote by Gardenhire in that article:

    "What that will be, I don't know. I'm still debating on the third catcher situation."
    Unless he is debating with himself, which is not out of the realm of possibility, there seem to be saner voices in the organization...
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    Senior Member All-Star James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsFanLV View Post
    Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11).

    Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!
    You are correct that he should never start and the criticism should be directed at Gardy and Ryan. But, if you are going to carry a third catcher, find one that has a better line than .178/.220/.261.
    Last edited by James; 04-20-2012 at 10:33 AM.
    You can come up with statistics to prove anything. Forty percent of all people know that.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Well said, TwinsFanLV!

  7. #7
    There is not one catcher in the minors that should be called up and but on the bench(and ever start). NOT ONE!!!!!! Get over yourself Gardy. NOOO you DO NOT need a 3rd catcher. Thank God Ryan as a brain!!

  8. #8
    The couple of times that a pitcher MAY need to bat - let's have Luke Hughes or someo
    ne available to PH then.......naw! The backup is Duomit. Yes, we may want him to field a bit better...but you can't have everything, and with Butera/Rivera/Towles you have nothing.

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    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinsFanLV View Post
    Drew Butera need not to be "dreaded". Carrying three catchers makes sense, IF the three are used correctly. Should Butera be leading off and asked to steal 40 bases? No. Can Butera serve as a defensive replacement for Doumit late in a one run game? Yes. Can Butera spell Mauer in a lopsided contest? Yes. Should Butera be limited to 3-5 ABs/week? Yes. Is this a reasonable way to keep both Mauer and Doumit's bats in the lineup? Yes! Is there any useful purpose to carrying 13 pitchers? NO NO NO! (or 12, or 11).

    Any criticism of the roster should be directed at Gardenhire and Ryan. Please give Butera a break!
    Give Butera a break? Why? The guy had the worst statistical batting season of any position player since the '50's!! Stevie Wonder could have got on base more than him. How does that warrant a break?

    The definition of "Dreaded" in Webster's is "Drew Butera". I agree with your points on having a 3rd catcher, just not who.

    Yes, there is a useful purpose to having 12-13 pitchers, we need them all to get through 9 innings.

  10. #10
    Drew Butera is a wasted bench spot. This team does not have 2 or 3 at bats a week they can afford to throw away.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    13 pitchers will resolve itself. It was a temporary solution to the uncertainty surrounding Blackburn and Perkins. A third catcher is probably unnecessary though, particularly when one can make a case that the crappy starting pitching means a 7 man bullpen is defensible.

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    With Doumit's ABs limited due to the RF musical chair addition of Clete, why add any player that takes away ABs at catcher? OR, will this third Catcher only sit on the bench in case of emergency, never getting in except as a late inning replacement for Doumit at C? Until there is a plan for Doumit getting regular ABs, I don't see how bringing another C up makes any sense. It only makes sense if they intend to put Doumit in RF regularly.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  13. #13
    A few minutes ago, on 1500, Gardy was asked about the third catcher and the whole situation sounded up in the air... Reusse mentioned that Rivera worked well with Liriano last year... Gardy mention Towles as somone to bring up if you want a third catcher who can hit... He also said Towles can play some third or OF, giving him more options...

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    I don't see how bringing another C up makes any sense. It only makes sense if they intend to put Doumit in RF regularly.
    It does not make sense even if they put Doumit in RF regularly... Then Mauer will be the Catcher and if something happens to him, Doumit can come in and Catch at that point. Gardy's unsubstantiated fear is that he will lose the DH if one of the 2 Cs is DHing and the other gets hurt. Nuts.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    He also said Towles can play some third or OF, giving him more options...
    interesting... I guess 4 players who can play third (Valencia, Burroughs, Carroll, Plouffe) and a whole bunch of people who can play the OF do not give him enough options now...
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  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    It does not make sense even if they put Doumit in RF regularly... Then Mauer will be the Catcher and if something happens to him, Doumit can come in and Catch at that point. Gardy's unsubstantiated fear is that he will lose the DH if one of the 2 Cs is DHing and the other gets hurt. Nuts.
    I agree with you. I guess I should say I don't like having 2 Cs either, and I wouldn't to do it. Since I don't see Gardy putting Doumit in RF regularly, it doesn't make sense is my bottom line. Even then, I still agree with you. This scenario makes even less sense if Doumit is on the bench (Mauer catching and Clete in RF) AND ALSO having a third catcher. Fair enough?

    Also, I thought the same thing about having so may guys who can play many positions. I don't call that added versatility, I call that intentially moving players out of position to fill an imagined stop-gap defensive emergency.
    Last edited by Ultima Ratio; 04-20-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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  17. #17
    P.S. While on 1500, Gardy said Willingham had agreed to be the emergency catcher, since he was once a catcher...

  18. #18
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I'm a little intrigued by the hand-wringing about this. What is the concern, exactly?
    1. Are we worried about losing one of the bullpen pitchers to waivers? (I have a little trouble believing that.)
    2. Is there a different player we want called up who would provide so much more value as the last guy on the bench? (It can't be Hughes, because it hasn't been 10 days, right?)

    I can understand being generally opposed to having a 3rd catcher, just like I can understand being generally opposed to a 13 man pitching staff. But this isn't a theoretical situation. From a practical standpoint, what is the downside here?

  19. #19
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I'm a little intrigued by the hand-wringing about this. What is the concern, exactly?
    1. Are we worried about losing one of the bullpen pitchers to waivers? (I have a little trouble believing that.)
    2. Is there a different player we want called up who would provide so much more value as the last guy on the bench? (It can't be Hughes, because it hasn't been 10 days, right?)

    I can understand being generally opposed to having a 3rd catcher, just like I can understand being generally opposed to a 13 man pitching staff. But this isn't a theoretical situation. From a practical standpoint, what is the downside here?

    The downside is that it might end up being the worst hitter in the modern history of baseball.

  20. #20
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    The downside is that it might end up being the worst hitter in the modern history of baseball.
    +1 (and not only the modern history, Ancient history as well)

    and with Gardenhire's need to play him at least every 5 days when Pavano starts, you know that the team will have at least 200 futile PAs.
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