Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 117

Thread: Article: Catching No Longer an Option For Mauer

  1. #41
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    155
    Like
    6
    Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    Mauer is now married with a wife and Twin daughters. At some point this winter he is going to have to come to the understanding that his health and future as a husband and father dictate that he no longer risks his future health by catching.
    By that logic anyone who has a concussion should quit playing baseball because they're putting their family at risk. Baseball is a game that has inherent injury risks. Playing 1B doesn't keep him from getting beaned at the plate or hit by an errant throw during practice.

  2. #42
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    2,546
    Like
    84
    Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
    Blog Entries
    25
    There aren't many sure things. Among the surest things for the Twins is that if he is playing, Joe Mauer will hit. I certainly think that he will hit better and in more games as a first baseman. I also am pretty certain that Mauer will be an asset at first base whether he plays there for 20 or 50 or a 150 games. Will Pinto be the regular catcher immediately and last there for several years? I think so, but it is far from a sure thing. It would be great if he could step in but I think the Twins need to have a contingency plan--one not involving Mauer going back to catcher if Pinto isn't ready or gets hurt.

  3. #43
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
    Posts
    2,546
    Like
    84
    Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
    Blog Entries
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    By that logic anyone who has a concussion should quit playing baseball because they're putting their family at risk. Baseball is a game that has inherent injury risks. Playing 1B doesn't keep him from getting beaned at the plate or hit by an errant throw during practice.
    True, but how many catchers were disabled this year by things unique to being a catcher (home plate collisions and foul tips)?

  4. #44
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,786
    Like
    4
    Liked 67 Times in 50 Posts
    Blog Entries
    63
    I am comfortable with a Pinto/Herrmann semi-platoon behind the plate. Semi, because Pinto should be the primary catcher. SSS and everything, I know, but I don't really care. I don't expect Pinto's fall to earth to be that dramatic. And Herrmann will get a bit better after his rookie season. His isolated discipline of about 90 means that if he can hit .240, he is a good backup catcher. I don't expect much of a higher average, but a .240/.330/.370 doesn't seem out of the question. And Pinto's OPS could legitimately be 70-100 points higher than that. Some offensive drop by moving Mauer away from catcher is mitigated by having adequate-good catching options, the arrival of Sano at third, and a jump forward by Arcia (and, ahem, a platoon of Parmelee and Plouffe).

  5. #45
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,786
    Like
    4
    Liked 67 Times in 50 Posts
    Blog Entries
    63
    Also, I am pretty damn sure that Mauer will be a better defensive first baseman than Colabello, Parmelee, Plouffe, Sano, etc. etc. etc. et al, et al, et al--perhaps the best in the entire organization?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    155
    Like
    6
    Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I'll leave the full context of your first point, but I have to disagree with the second sentence of it. According to Concussion: Risk factors - MayoClinic.com :

    Factors that may increase your risk of a concussion include:

    • Participating in a high risk sport...
    • ..
    • Having had a previous concussion

    Mayo's stats apparently mean his "rate" is no longer what it once was.
    "May increase risk." Not "Increases risk by a factor of 100." If he gets one concussion every 10+ years the odds are really low he gets another next season. Moving him from C to 1B only decreases those odds slightly because his concussion risk does not come just from playing C. He's not going to stop "participating in a high risk sport". Alexi Casilla and Wilkin Ramirez had concussions playing the field this year and they don't play catcher.

    Does anyone have actual data on the rate of concussions for catchers versus other positions? It is critical to have data to make a risk-based decision. Humans are notoriously awful at estimating risk.

  7. #47
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,786
    Like
    4
    Liked 67 Times in 50 Posts
    Blog Entries
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    By that logic anyone who has a concussion should quit playing baseball because they're putting their family at risk. Baseball is a game that has inherent injury risks. Playing 1B doesn't keep him from getting beaned at the plate or hit by an errant throw during practice.
    Number of times hit in head by foul tip >>>> number of times hit in head by pitch or by errant throws in practice.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
    Posts
    2,421
    Like
    2
    Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    By that logic anyone who has a concussion should quit playing baseball because they're putting their family at risk.
    If I was a professional ballplayer, and I already had more money than I needed for the rest of my life, I would have to give serious consideration to exactly this. Morneau made a similar comment a couple of years ago, to the effect that it might get to the point where it's not worth continuing to play, and if that happened he would be OK with that.

    I think it would be very interesting to see the reaction of the fanbase if that actually happened (and note I am not in any way predicting it nor anticipating it - I'm just speculating for the sake of speculation) - how many would respect him for doing right by his family and how many would feel betrayed by his decision?

  9. #49
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,080
    Like
    15
    Liked 89 Times in 55 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by halfchest View Post
    I don't know Pinto seems like something clicked over the last couple years. He's had a .844 OPS in 2012 and .882 OPS in 2013 along with a really nice start in the majors. Will he be a .850 OPS hitter? Probably not. Could he be around .800 though? I think so. I think he wasn't on prospect lists because a year ago he had had one nice season. Well now he built on that with an even more impressive season this year. Nice K/BB ratio and 15 HR pop. Probably should be a top 100 prospect if he doesn't use up his eligibility. I guess in my plan he would be the primary C and DH maybe 30-50 games.

    I agree with you on Hermann but it is nice that he can at least be a solid emergency option in the outfield, possibly late game defensive replacement type guy.
    Sickels did a September writeup on Pinto and tentatively put him as a B- prospect. Those are borderline top 100 guys at best. Imo people are consistently over optimistic when translating MiLB stats to MLB stats.

    The problem with putting Pinto at DH (same for Doumit) for 30-50 games is that it means that the team doesn't have a real DH that is an actual plus hitter in the lineup. Pinto is in his mid 20's and he shouldn't need rest days other than the standard one per week. His bat also likely won't be that important to the lineup and he should get an actual rest day instead of DH'ing.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    155
    Like
    6
    Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    That isn't the whole equation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Number of times hit in head by foul tip >>>> number of times hit in head by pitch or by errant throws in practice.
    How many times does getting hit by a foul tip result in a concussion? How many times does getting hit in the head by an errant throw when you're not wearing a helmet and face mask cause a concussion?

    We're dealing with really small numbers here which is why we need actual data to make a good decision.

    Suppose playing catcher doubles his concussion risk versus playing 1B. That means moving him to 1B decreases his risk he gets a concussion in 2014 from very unlikely to very, very unlikely. I don't see "long term health concerns" as a legitimate reason to move him from C to 1B. If that was a real worry the only way to mitigate it is to quit playing baseball.

    If we're looking at overall injury risk to a C versus 1B I think that is legitimate because you want Mauer on the field instead of on the DL but it has nothing at all to do with concussions.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    138
    Like
    42
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    Having an elite hitting catcher is worth it. Buster Posey ripped his knee up catching and he still catches almost full time. Yadi would punch somebody if they tried to move him from catcher.
    This is apples to oranges. Knee injuries aren't a big deal anymore. You have surgery, you miss time rehabbing, and you come back nearly as good as new. (See: Posey, Peterson). Head injuries aren't something you fix with a surgery and rehab, unfortunately. There's no timetable or step-by-step instructions for returning to 100%.

    I don't think Mauer is 100% done catching, but he probably should be, for his sake and the team's.

  12. #52
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    5,340
    Like
    1,419
    Liked 1,087 Times in 489 Posts
    The risk of getting another concussion from a pitch, an errant throw during practice, or any other reason is there no matter what position he plays.

    What goes away if he's not catching is the specific risk of foul tips hitting him in the head. Which just happens to be the specific cause of this concussion, and which can be anticipated to happen multiple times again wih near certainty if he stays a catcher.

    Combined with the other short and long term physical risks of catching make this decision really easy IMO.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  13. #53
    Senior Member Triple-A Teflon's Avatar
    Posts
    226
    Like
    0
    Liked 12 Times in 2 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    Arguments in the vein of "Mauer provides more value relative to the competition at catcher than he would at another position" only make sense if you're playing fantasy baseball. Since the Twins currently have a batting order featuring crap, crud, and flotsam Mauer's position change does nothing to weaken this team. It only weakens his chances of making future All-Star games.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    235
    Like
    11
    Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
    This could also be an opportunity to maximize value in Willingham. If the Twins go to a more traditional catching situation like they had with Mauer/Redmond they they no longer will have the 1B/DH/Catcher rotation. You get Willingham out of left field and put him at DH were he can hit.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    We could always put Adam Brett Walker II at Catcher. I read or heard he was a Catcher his entire life until he went to college. College coaches didn't want to waste his athleticism behind the plate. He could be another big Catcher (ala Joe). When is the last time we could say we had a Catcher who hit 30+ HRs either? A new direction (average for power)? Might have some swing and miss but HRs and RBIs don't grow on trees. I am kidding but..............

  16. #56
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,168
    Like
    19
    Liked 197 Times in 125 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Teflon View Post
    Arguments in the vein of "Mauer provides more value relative to the competition at catcher than he would at another position" only make sense if you're playing fantasy baseball. Since the Twins currently have a batting order featuring crap, crud, and flotsam Mauer's position change does nothing to weaken this team. It only weakens his chances of making future All-Star games.
    I was always of the mind that Mauer moving to 1B would hurt the team offensively but this is a true point. Mauer moving to 1B means more AB for Pinto and less for Parmelee or Colabello. Hard to argue that that is going to hurt the team at this point.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    502
    Like
    9
    Liked 15 Times in 13 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    Next season or 3 Mauer can platoon at First and C with Plouffe or Colabello being the Right Handed 1B and Pinto at C. Mauer can Catch 60-100 games and play 1B 50-90 games depending on health and how the complimentary parts are playing/ hitting. I think Mauer has a few seasons left behind the plate. I do think thats where his value is greatest and as long as he isnt worn out he'll be able to hit.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Triple-A Sconnie's Avatar
    Posts
    306
    Like
    77
    Liked 52 Times in 36 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    I have been an opponent of moving Mauer away from catcher, and stick by it, unless he can't do it anymore. 5 weeks does not a lifetime make. I agree with DJL44, that playing baseball puts every player at risk of getting a concussion.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    The Mauer to 3B thing never made sense, and it was never something given and credence by the Twins or by Mauer...
    Yeah, the idea that Mauer should go learn 3rd base in his Age 31 season is something out of fantasy baseball, video games, or whatever...but it isn't set in reality. Most 3rd baseman who have been doing it for a decade or longer are starting to wind down by age 31. Reflexes slow, athleticism diminishes, and many of them wind up out of the league by their mid-30's unless they can really hit or if they have a background as a middle infielder and can play other positions.

    An aging Joe Mauer could hit well enough to play 3rd, but there's no long term value to throwing him out at a completely unfamiliar position that takes entirely different skills than catcher or even 1st base.

    Couple all that with the fact that one of the top hitting prospects in baseball already plays that position (how well remains to be seen), and this just makes no sense.

    I think Mauer spends significant time at 1st base next year (if healthy enough to play, of course). He also DH'es some, perhaps against lefties with Colabello playing 1st for those games.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Teflon View Post
    Arguments in the vein of "Mauer provides more value relative to the competition at catcher than he would at another position" only make sense if you're playing fantasy baseball. Since the Twins currently have a batting order featuring crap, crud, and flotsam Mauer's position change does nothing to weaken this team. It only weakens his chances of making future All-Star games.
    THANK YOU. Even the SABR guys tend to disagree with this, but position scarcity has little or no value unless all 9 (or perhaps at least 6 or 7) of your positional guys are above-replacement hitters for their positions. No matter how good Mauer is playing catcher - the fact that he happens to play catcher is irrelevant to the overall offensive strength of the team...UNLESS you are overflowing with good options at other positions.

    If Parmelee and Colabello are the 1st base options, and they both stink next year, then you haven't gained anything at all by "opening up" 1st base for somebody else to play (by having Mauer at catcher). Positional scarcity has some validity, but what people miss is that it has as much or more to do with the quality of the other 8 guys than it does with the quality of the guy overperforming at a "scarce" position.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.