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Thread: Terry Ryan on KFAN

  1. #21
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    So you think once you turn a certain age you can't learn new things? Talk about insulting a whole class of people.
    This seems to be a gross over-generalization of Levi's point. I know you two disagree on a few things, but this smells like it is meant to attack rather then address a point, by deliberately misrepresenting him.

    Don't do that.

    To better define the point being made...
    1. It seems all of us, even Ryan, can agree that eventually it might make sense to pay for free agents.
    2. But his comments certainly seem to imply that expectations for this offseason should be tempered.

    To me, it suggests we shouldn't expect to see him be any more aggressive than he was last offseason, when the Twins were in a similar (maybe even slightly better) position. This year, they spent $8.5M on Pelfrey and Correia. It suggests that we should not expect too much more than that - maybe $10M or so - on a couple of mid-level free agent pitching acquisitions, like a guy coming back from injury and an inning-eater.

    Am I being too pessimistic?

  2. #22
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    "If we're going to do anything here and succeed in the near and long long-term Paul, it's probably no going to be via free agency. It's going to be drafting and international acquisitions and trades and so forth. Very rarely do you end up succeeding because of free agency.
    Is anyone really surprised at this??!!!!!! Every time I read a post here on TD that says that the Twins have X amount of dollars to spend and should go after this free agent and that free agent I'm thinking that they're %$@#% dreaming!!! Thatís not the Twins way. Terry Ryan will pick up an innings eater and a couple of projects this winter and thatís it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    So you think once you turn a certain age you can't learn new things? Talk about insulting a whole class of people.
    It doesn't matter if it's insulting. It matters if it's accurate.

    TR sounds like my crazy uncle who talks about how cheap kit kat bars were back in the day. He's a dinosaur and every interview he does makes it more clear he's overmatched.
    Last edited by launchingthrees; 09-24-2013 at 07:56 AM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

    "We're not going to use free agency to get better. Except maybe when we get better, then we'll use free agency to get better. Or maybe not. But we're not going to 'get it done' via free agency. Except we need to make the roster better, so we'll be aggressively pursuing free agents. There's no doubt we need to do that. But long term, we can't get better through free agency, but we might."
    Is this an actual quote from the interview? I despise listening to podcasts (sorry) and interviews plus the sound on the computer drives my dog absolutely bananas.

    When i first read Chief's post, I thought he was being satirical. Did Terry Ryan actually make the statements quoted above?

    Thanks.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Is this an actual quote from the interview? I despise listening to podcasts (sorry) and interviews plus the sound on the computer drives my dog absolutely bananas.

    When i first read Chief's post, I thought he was being satirical. Did Terry Ryan actually make the statements quoted above?

    Thanks.
    I took some liberties with paraphrasing.

    Maybe.

    You can read the actual quote farther up the thread.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I took some liberties with paraphrasing.

    Maybe.

    You can read the actual quote farther up the thread.
    Thank you. I take it that the quote in John's original post is accurate.

    (I thought I was losing my mind there for a minute -- although some would say it was gone long ago.)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    This seems to be a gross over-generalization of Levi's point. I know you two disagree on a few things, but this smells like it is meant to attack rather then address a point, by deliberately misrepresenting him.

    Don't do that.

    To better define the point being made...
    1. It seems all of us, even Ryan, can agree that eventually it might make sense to pay for free agents.
    2. But his comments certainly seem to imply that expectations for this offseason should be tempered.

    To me, it suggests we shouldn't expect to see him be any more aggressive than he was last offseason, when the Twins were in a similar (maybe even slightly better) position. This year, they spent $8.5M on Pelfrey and Correia. It suggests that we should not expect too much more than that - maybe $10M or so - on a couple of mid-level free agent pitching acquisitions, like a guy coming back from injury and an inning-eater.

    Am I being too pessimistic?
    How can one overgeneralize a generalized statement? The critique is that he is old school. That is an aged based complaint. The complaint is based on what, one off season where he had payroll flexibility? He signed 2 bargain basement free agent pitchers. Judging from the ongoing threads judging last year's free agent pitching his assessments by whatever method worked. He did sign the wrong former Skeeter pitcher to a minor league contract, (Mickey Callaway deserves a coach of the year honor) so Ryan's team didn't do all great work is assessing the talent that was out there. What methods do they use to determine what players to sign? Considering that some of the free agents available had decent years the year before they had to have done some form of projecting. The fans do not know much what goes into the decision making process. So how can you label it old school other than that Ryan is old? True, he doesn't talk metrics. He doesn't talk much specifics on anything that would give you a clue what he thinks.
    Ryan works more towards long term than short term. This year should be a kick in the head to remind him that free agents plug short term gaps, too.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Despite the prospects the Twins are expecting to start arriving in 2014, Ryan sounds like he's going to punt the season again. The Twins really have no one to trade of significant value and Ryan isn't going to sign any major pieces in free agency.

    If the Twins are really building something special in the next couple years like they want us to believe, then maybe they should spend some of their burgeoning cash pile to bring in a good pitcher on a multi-year deal that can help not only in 2014 but also onward after that. Worst case scenario, the prospects all flame out and the Twins are still a marginally better team than 2013. There's a possibility that they could always flip said pitcher in a trade anyway.

  9. #29
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    My point was very clearly limited to old school sports guys. Baseball, in particular, has a very rigid old school/new school divide and I think a guy like Ryan has a hard time keeping up with trends much less bucking trends and forging new ground. It's not some kind of knock on old people, it's a knock on rigidity and some of the inflexible thinking we see in baseball quite often.

    The Twins under Ryan have been as rigid as any. Sometimes tht pays off and sometimes it severely limits your options. I think we've crossed that bridge into "too limiting" far more than I feel comfortable with.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    My point was very clearly limited to old school sports guys. Baseball, in particular, has a very rigid old school/new school divide
    And there's a whole show on MLB Network based off that exact premise. Reynolds and Kenny facing off.

    On top of that, some people take a lot of pride in being 'old school', for whatever reason...or at least unless that phrase is used in a supposed negative manner then all of a sudden it's insulting.

    I'm also reminded of a very popular phrase, 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks'. It's been around, forever...

    Anyway, back on topic.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 09-24-2013 at 10:09 AM.
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I don't think free agent acquisitions would make the Twins a contender in the near future (definitely not 2014 and I'm pretty skeptical on 2015) but I keep going back to Nick's statement in his "Dissension on Spending" article: "But there's a large difference between contending and what we've seen unfold here for a third straight year."

    In fact, I'd take it a step further: over the weekend Berardino made the following statement in one of his "Twins Now" blog posts on the PP: "[T]
    he A’s went five straight seasons without even sniffing the playoffs. From 2007-11, they averaged 85.6 losses per season as the big-spending Los Angeles Angels and Texas Rangers ruled the West.Oakland is back, however, even with a dump of a home ballpark and a sub-$70 million payroll that outranks only the Houston Astros among AL competitors.
    The Twins and their $80 million payroll can take solace from that example..."

    The Twins were 63-99 in 2011, 66-96 in 2012 and, barring a miraculous final spurt, are looking at about 68-94 in 2013. That's about a 96 game losing average over those 3 years.

    Even if we average in 2009 and 2010, 2 very good years for the Twins, the losing average is going to be about 86.6 losses per year over a 5 year period.

    Does anyone really think that the next 2 years will produce records as good as 2009 and 2010?

    I guess my point is that the depth of the futility to which the Twins have sunk is deeper than Oakland -- probably much deeper than Oakland so it is hard for me to take much "solace in that example."

    While no one expects miracles over the next year or two, I'd like to think that spending some money in the short run could produce something somewhat more palatable than where we are at right now. I don't want them to do something that will jeopardize a long term recovery but some recognition of the depth of this team's futility would be appreciated.
    Last edited by JB_Iowa; 09-24-2013 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Because I always spell Berardino as Bernardino (Sorry, sir!)

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    So you think once you turn a certain age you can't learn new things? Talk about insulting a whole class of people.
    Young nurse agrees with him.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anyone can agree with Terry Ryan about free agents??? Unless he is just being vague and saying something obviously along the lines of "free agent signings won't get us a World Series" or "you can't plug every hole with a free agent" then ok. Thanks for the obvious.

    But if he is purposefully shying away from the market because of some idea that free agents aren't what the Twins need, then he is woefully mistaken. Without two free agent pitchers to add, that rotation is going to be a ****ing disaster. Correia and Deduno are not going to repeat 2013 performances next year. And the rotation isn't going to be good until Gibson settles in and Meyer and May are up. It still isn't going to be complete and secure until Berrios, Sulbaran, and Stewart are in the mix.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    So you think once you turn a certain age you can't learn new things? Talk about insulting a whole class of people.
    As long as that age is over 48 I'm OK with it, for now. Insult away. (That number changes to 49 in a few months and increases by one annually.)

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Imagine the following scenario: Phil Hughes comes to the Twins on a 2 year deal for 18 million bucks. He becomes a good pitcher (maybe not the hype of 6 years ago when I took a chance on him for my fantasy team and it was terrible . . . ) with an ERA under or near 4. The Twins aren't very good, again, and find themselves selling. And Phil Hughes brings back an older Sulbaranesque (really he's a nice reference point) pitcher and another lower prospect. That's called turning assets over, it's called using free agency not merely as a win-now method of competing, but as a means of getting younger players.

    There is no foreseeable future where the Twins are going to take money "saved" this year and next year and spend it in the future. The prospects are going to be cheap for several years now. Basically the spending starts on them when the Mauer contract ends.

    So there are two factors in play. Billionaires maximizing profits and Terry Ryan being stuck in an era before inflation. Seriously. It's like he thinks $60 million is what it was 15 years ago or something. And he appears to refuse to go outside of the box. And he got the Correia job done for one year (but one year with him wasn't really the problem . . . ) and so I imagine TR is looking again to strike Correiaesque (another good reference point) gold, er, bronze. I just pray that he doesn't think it is to be found in Pelfrey and the Twins *actually* go about adding no one to the starting rotation.

    Aren't the Twins potentially looking at a payroll for 2014 at 50% of what it was in 2011? THIS with a new stadium and a Joe Mauer who gets older . . .

  16. #36
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    The Old School Responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I don't understand how anyone can agree with Terry Ryan about free agents??? Unless he is just being vague and saying something obviously along the lines of "free agent signings won't get us a World Series" or "you can't plug every hole with a free agent" then ok. Thanks for the obvious.

    But if he is purposefully shying away from the market because of some idea that free agents aren't what the Twins need, then he is woefully mistaken. Without two free agent pitchers to add, that rotation is going to be a ****ing disaster. Correia and Deduno are not going to repeat 2013 performances next year. And the rotation isn't going to be good until Gibson settles in and Meyer and May are up. It still isn't going to be complete and secure until Berrios, Sulbaran, and Stewart are in the mix.
    Did you get a chance to read post #3, where Seth posted he agrees 100% with Ryan on Free Agency? I bet if you ask nicely, he will explain it to you.

    Several of the young lions on the board grossly misinterpreted, as is their nature, one Terry Ryan quote concluding that he would not spend a single penny on FA's now or forever. Fortunately several of the old school posters were on hand to show them the error of their ways. Indeed Ryan will sign one, if not multiples of free agent starting pitchers this off season.

  17. #37
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Mod note: Please keep the personal asides out of your comments, everyone. Thanks.

  18. #38
    I'm a Ryan fan as well, and agree with him about free agency. It's going to be painful for the next couple years, but that is far more a product of the Bill Smith Era (!) than TR's patience. FA spending or the prospect thereof, in fact, was likely a significant factor in Smith getting a Pohlad's shoe up his pants. Smaller market teams build best from drafts and development. Smith managed the Twins' talent very poorly, and that explains why we are where we are today.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I'm a Ryan fan as well, and agree with him about free agency. It's going to be painful for the next couple years, but that is far more a product of the Bill Smith Era (!) than TR's patience. FA spending or the prospect thereof, in fact, was likely a significant factor in Smith getting a Pohlad's shoe up his pants. Smaller market teams build best from drafts and development. Smith managed the Twins' talent very poorly, and that explains why we are where we are today.
    The talent put on the field in 2011 and 2012, were mostly Ryan's guys, not Smith's guys cause, if you remember correctly, Smith was only here 4 years. The guys he signed internationally and in the draft hadn't even gotten through the Twins notoriously slower promotion cycle to the majors.

    Ryan was also an adviser to Smith. Ryan also picked Smith to succeed him. Ryan also failed to get Hunter or Santana signed to an extension prior to 2007 and then really ticked both of them off when trading Castillo. Then he bailed and left the mess for Smith.

    To put this all on Smith's shoulder's is wrong....and darn him for actually spending the % of funds available to try and make the team better...I mean, how dare he follow through with the whole premise of the reason we needed a new ballpark, for more revenue to compete and then actually spend it. You're right, no wonder Pohlad fired him...
    Last edited by ThePuck; 09-24-2013 at 12:56 PM.
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Imagine the following scenario: Phil Hughes comes to the Twins on a 2 year deal for 18 million bucks. He becomes a good pitcher (maybe not the hype of 6 years ago when I took a chance on him for my fantasy team and it was terrible . . . ) with an ERA under or near 4. The Twins aren't very good, again, and find themselves selling. And Phil Hughes brings back an older Sulbaranesque (really he's a nice reference point) pitcher and another lower prospect. That's called turning assets over, it's called using free agency not merely as a win-now method of competing, but as a means of getting younger players.
    Agreed. Ryan himself says he doesn't feel free agents can help the Twins rebuild and he wants to do it with prospects. Well how do you get prospects? The draft and through trade. The Twins have next to nothing to trade right now, so use free agency to sign guys who have a possible profile of a tradable asset. Noodle armed swing men like Kevin Correia never had a chance of bringing back a return. The Yankees couldn't get anything for Hughes this season but he does have the pedigree and name where a turnaround season would give him considerable trade value.

    There are plenty of players on the market who may not be able to singlehandedly turn the club around in 2014 but will be valuable to competitive teams come next July. Of course the Twins still may have to be willing to eat some salary.

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