Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 58 of 58

Thread: This exists

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    No one's hiding from the term. But to use it as mascot for a team as nationally prominent as Washington and the NFL are spotlights and celebrates the slur.
    I'm having trouble accepting the term "celebrates" because it is the team being celebrated not the word. And accepting an adaptation on such a popular national stage would make the effort even more important if we could pull it off.

  2. #42
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    The team is being celebrated through the vessel of the mascot, which is a slur. The reason Native American figures are commodified into mascots is because of the racist assumptions people make about those figures' savagery and fierceness. There's no point in calling a team the Redskins if it doesn't celebrate that sense of savagery.

    Redskin will always be made up of two words that have immutable meanings--the notion that you can simply wipe away the historical roots of the word is just silly.

  3. This user likes PseudoSABR's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-03-2013)

  4. #43
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,866
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    This used to be their theme song:

    Hail to the Redskins! Hail, victory!

    Braves on the warpath!

    Fight for Old D.C.!

    Scalp 'em, swamp 'um

    We will take 'um big score

    Read 'um, Weep 'um, touchdown

    We want heap more

    Fight on, fight on, till you have won

    Sons of Washington

    Rah! Rah! Rah!

    Do we really still need to discuss whether the name was rooted in racism and a lack of empathy for mocking Native Americans?

  5. This user likes TheLeviathan's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-03-2013)

  6. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    The team is being celebrated through the vessel of the mascot, which is a slur.
    Is your argument on whether or not the mascot and image of an american indian on the logo should be removed? If so then I agree that the logo/mascot should be changed but the team could still use redskins the way the packers or nationals do and represent themselves with a letter. Arguing the image is different than arguing the word.

  7. #45
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    I don't know how you can admit to the problem with the iconography of the logo and not see the problem with the name. The symbolic weight of each is the same. Again, it's not like Redskin is some nonsense word, that only acts as a slur, the name is offensive because it refers to a person literally by the color of their pelt.

  8. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,743
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    Test.

    Redskins.

    Nope, the internets doesn't filter the word out.

    Maybe in N. Korea it would.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  9. #47
    Because the word only gains a racial connotation with the association to a misrepresentation of an American Indian. if you showed a child a Redskin football player with the term Redskin on their jersey but no image of an American Indian the child would, i assume, conclude that they are named that because their jersey is red. The term itself can only be considered offensive when represented with a misrepresentation of an American Indian. Otherwise it could refer to somebody blushing, or angry, or too warm.

  10. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Do we really still need to discuss whether the name was rooted in racism and a lack of empathy for mocking Native Americans?
    Let's look at the Vikings theme song:

    Skol Vikings, let's win this game,
    Skol Vikings, honor your name,
    Go get that first down,
    Then get a touchdown.
    Rock 'em . . . Sock 'em
    Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
    Go Vikings, run up the score,
    You'll hear us yell for more. . .
    V-I-K-I-N-G-S
    Skol, Vikings, let's go!

    What do they have in common? They both cheer the team to fight, they both focus on scoring touchdowns, they both praise the team (Hail Redskins, Skol Vikings), So you're issue is with the word scalp. I would classify the use of that word as a stereotype but not as racist. I'd also like to address again that I don't dispute the roots of the word. I believe that people vastly associate the word with a football team, not a race of people. Therefore, the definition of the word has undergone/is undergoing a dramatic change and the issue lies not in the word but in the association to an incorrect image. The image should be the target, not the word.


  11. #49
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    What the fight songs have in common is that they are fight songs, what they don't have in common is relying on racially charged phrases and images to rally that fight. The second and fourth lines of the Redskins depicts the very savagery that people find demeaning.

    If the Vikings fight song had a line about force-feeding someone with lutefisk or raping and pillaging the villages of Greenland, you might actually have a point.

  12. #50
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
    Posts
    5,084
    Like
    4,546
    Liked 723 Times in 384 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    I see no good reason for preserving the image or the word. Without the image, the word seems meaningless and therefore not a good team nickname. It seems to me that a clean slate makes the most sense.

    I appreciate how everyone has been following TD policy in this thread.

  13. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    If the Vikings fight song had a line about force-feeding someone with lutefisk...
    This made me chuckle heartily. However neither of those examples pertains to the actual word Redskins.

    In response to Glunn, the benefit in retaining the word after the severing of connection to the image is monetary. There is a considerable amount of merchandise in circulation which has the word Redskins on it with no logo which would remain valid.

  14. #52
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,866
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    If you think the only issue with that song is "scalp" then you need to brush up on your Native American stereotypes. It's rife with more.

    Its ample evidence of the utter indifference to mockery the whole concept is. We should want to be better than that.

  15. #53
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,866
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins best friend View Post
    This made me chuckle heartily. However neither of those examples pertains to the actual word Redskins.

    In response to Glunn, the benefit in retaining the word after the severing of connection to the image is monetary. There is a considerable amount of merchandise in circulation which has the word Redskins on it with no logo which would remain valid.
    well, at least we've put a price tag on respect then I suppose.

  16. These 2 users like TheLeviathan's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    ashburyjohn (12-03-2013), ChiTownTwinsFan (12-03-2013)

  17. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    If you think the only issue with that song is "scalp" then you need to brush up on your Native American stereotypes. It's rife with more.
    Could you elaborate more on them then? Besides scalp what are the other stereotypes? I still don't believe that mockery is the correct term. You need to brush up on your history as well. Europeans were very impressed with the Revolutionary era American Indian physique. There are accounts of soldiers boasting that they were able to complete marches that even American Indians found difficult implying that there was a great deal of respect for the physical ability of American Indians. American Indians would joke how the the settlers couldn't handle the terrain and the weather of America because they weren't manly enough. How would it be mocking to name a team after a group of people who were considered physically elite? The image on the logo is incorrect because it misrepresents the true image of American Indians and that should be changed. The name, in my opinion, has lost the connection to that image and American Indians as a nation and now is synonymous with a football team.

    That was an unnecessary shot as well regarding the price tag. I've stated before that I will not be remorse if the name is changed. Glunn wanted a reason and I offered a financial incentive. You cannot argue that it woudn't be a financial incentive which means your basis is on the morals which we were arguing already anyway.

  18. #55
    Actually, I'm going to put an end to my part in this argument and ask the most basic question possible. Do you feel that the term Redskins still calls to mind the image of American Indians for people? My entire argument is based on that I don't feel that it does anymore. If people are in agreement that Redskins is still associated with American Indians and not the football team in their mind then I recant my argument and agree that the name should be changed.

  19. #56
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,866
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins best friend View Post
    Could you elaborate more on them then?
    The beat, warpath, braves, broken english, wump em - it's all one big cartoonish portrayl.

    How would it be mocking to name a team after a group of people who were considered physically elite?
    We thought Africans so physically impressive we enslaved them and worked them to death. Want to rename any teams the "Negros"? Your position is getting less and less rational with every post.

    That was an unnecessary shot as well regarding the price tag.
    Not at all. Financial windfalls shouldn't even be a consideration. It's insulting and shows just how trivial you treat the issue that you equate human dignity with price tags.

  20. #57
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Twins best friend View Post
    Do you feel that the term Redskins still calls to mind the image of American Indians for people? My entire argument is based on that I don't feel that it does anymore.
    What the heck else could the word Redskin refer to? They have an American Indian on the side of helmet, for ****'s sake. You can't really believe that people don't make the association between the name and the logo and the actually people.

    How many people does it take to be offended by the nickname and how many people does it take to associate the nickname to American Indians for you to change your mind? Because there's plenty of people in both categories.

  21. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    They have an American Indian on the side of helmet, for ****'s sake...how many people does it take to associate the nickname to American Indians for you to change your mind? Because there's plenty...
    I've stated my view on the logo. I think it should be removed. If there are people that think of American Indians as Redskins and less than other people then I'm sorry. I do not associate that term with American Indians, only a football team. I really would like to think that people are better than making that association. However, since there is such vehement opposition to my assumption, I'll retract it and apologize again.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.