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Thread: Article: Three-Bagger: Deja Vu, Home Sickness & Being Like Beane

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    The A's have been good at identifying pitchers, but they have yet to even make it to a world series. I don't think they are a golden franchise by any stretch.
    They've been as good or better than the Twins for cheaper and longer. If World Series is your threshold...how many have the Twins won? or even play-off series?

    I'm not saying they are a golden franchise, I'm saying they make better use of their resources than the Twins

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BHtwins View Post
    They've been as good or better than the Twins for cheaper and longer. If World Series is your threshold...how many have the Twins won? or even play-off series?

    I'm not saying they are a golden franchise, I'm saying they make better use of their resources than the Twins
    I disagree completely. The A's made the playoffs 4 times from 2000 to 2003, then in 2006. They lost in the first round all of the first 4 times and got swept in the ALCS in 2006. Sure they won more playoff games than the Twins, but that is a small victory IMO. The Twins made the post-season 6 times and also advanced only once. Most of the while the Twins were on similar budget constraints as the A's. The A's were innovative and new in the early 2000's, the rest of the league caught up.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  3. #23
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    The A's were innovative and new in the early 2000's, the rest of the league caught up.
    Yeah, looking like the rest of the AL West has really figured them out.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Yeah, looking like the rest of the AL West has really figured them out.
    They are allowed to be good every 7 years I guess.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  5. #25
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    They are allowed to be good every 7 years I guess.
    Come on dude. They won the division last year and they're on the verge of winning it this year. I'm not sure why you're opting not to give them any credit for their success but you're way off base.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Come on dude. They won the division last year and they're on the verge of winning it this year. I'm not sure why you're opting not to give them any credit for their success but you're way off base.
    Much to the contrary. They deserve plenty of credit for what they have done. My point is rather their model for success hasn't been so successful that I want to emulate them. The A's have made some good decisions and continue to stick to their model. Some things they do really well, like identify talented SP and sign FA that have a lot of value for cheap. I'm just not a guy that wants to do things like someone else. I'd prefer the Twins steal someone away with knowledge of their process and integrate it.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Much to the contrary. They deserve plenty of credit for what they have done. My point is rather their model for success hasn't been so successful that I want to emulate them. The A's have made some good decisions and continue to stick to their model. Some things they do really well, like identify talented SP and sign FA that have a lot of value for cheap. I'm just not a guy that wants to do things like someone else.
    Lucky for the rest of the AL, neither are the Twins.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I don't really buy into this line of thinking. The flame-out rate for pitchers that look promising in Single-A and below is pretty high. Relying on these guys as the sole hope for a resurgence is risky business, because if the majority of them don't pan out you're probably just going to stay stuck in the same cycle.

    I think the Twins need to build up some strength at the major-league level and hope that, once guys like Stewart, Berrios, Gonsalves etc are ready to graduate, they can supplement an existing rotation that is at least respectable.
    Exactly, and then the Twins will have the surplus and enough of a safty net to move the more seasoned arms for more prospects, ala the Oakland cycle. You can't start the cycle with the Correia's, Deduno's and Pelfrey's of the world, you won't get a return for them.

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I think the Twins need to build up some strength at the major-league level and hope that, once guys like Stewart, Berrios, Gonsalves etc are ready to graduate, they can supplement an existing rotation that is at least respectable.
    Exactly. They need to plug in at the top with legitimate top-worthy pitchers instead of just waiting for prospects to fill the top. If those prospects actually arrive in full, then those older players can be traded.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Exactly. They need to plug in at the top with legitimate top-worthy pitchers instead of just waiting for prospects to fill the top. If those prospects actually arrive in full, then those older players can be traded.
    And where do you suppose we find those legitimate top-worthy pitchers ? They will be lucky to find a FA who would sign with a losing team. The International FA's are probably not signable as well. The only hope is to innovate and develop from the pitchers we have. At the moment that too appears unlikely. Gibson and Hendricks are still young though. There is hope, although the hope is dim.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    And where do you suppose we find those legitimate top-worthy pitchers ? They will be lucky to find a FA who would sign with a losing team. The International FA's are probably not signable as well. The only hope is to innovate and develop from the pitchers we have. At the moment that too appears unlikely. Gibson and Hendricks are still young though. There is hope, although the hope is dim.
    KC, Cleveland and Toronto had more hope than you do.

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    And where do you suppose we find those legitimate top-worthy pitchers ? They will be lucky to find a FA who would sign with a losing team.
    Top of the rotation free agent pitchers almost always signs a multi-year deal. If the Twins make strong offers, it's hard to believe that pitchers would say no just because they don't want to start a three or four year deal with one potentially down season before the team returns to competitiveness.

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