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Thread: Predict Ponder

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Weapons?! You're serious? I am a big fan of AD, but what else? Don't tell me about a rookie receiver or a TE who only exceeded a measly 40 yards 5 times the whole season. Greg Jennings I'm not convinced on as the Packers don't exactly let guys go with significant value left to give. You cannot judge Ponder whatsoever based on his "weapons".
    Yeah, that Percy harvin guy was certainly not a legit "weapon"

    Ponder sucks, he can't make the throws, end of story.

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Late to the discussion, but put me in the camp that says in today's NFL, it's the QB who "makes" the weapons, not the other way around.

    We all love watching AD, but you win in the NFL based on your ability to pass the ball, on your terms, and your ability to stop the other team from doing the same. Running the ball is a nice addition to an offense, not a basis.

    Ponder is never going to be able to lead such an offense, IMO. Move on.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  3. #23
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    The offense scored 24....ponder was not good, but if your defense is going to be that bad (and they lose 3 DL after this year), it won't matter who the QB is this year or next....
    Lighten up Francis....

  4. #24
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    The offense scored 24....ponder was not good, but if your defense is going to be that bad (and they lose 3 DL after this year), it won't matter who the QB is this year or next....
    The defense has nothing to do with his comically awful interceptions and inaccurate throws. Hell, his best pass of the day should've been an easy touchdown that turned into an amazing bailout from Simpson.

    Blaming the D for Ponder is new, I will give ya that.

  5. #25
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    My point was, they scored more than most other teams in the NFL yesterday, and all anyone can talk about is Ponder......if the point is to score points, the offense was actually effective yesterday. I'm blaming the D for the loss......that was the point of that post. If the defense is going to be bottom 5, not many QBs on the planet can overcome that.

    As for "bailing him out", I watched a ton of football yesterday, nearly every game had a WR make a great catch, that's what happens in the NFL. That same WR also dropped a pass right in his hands to create an INT.
    Lighten up Francis....

  6. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Yeah, that Percy harvin guy was certainly not a legit "weapon"

    Ponder sucks, he can't make the throws, end of story.
    Yeah, because I was talking about LAST season.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  7. #27
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    btw, I am not a Ponder guy, I wanted Fairley or Amakamura in that draft....Fairley was the guy I most wanted. That would have helped the AWFUL defense yesterday.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  8. #28
    The defense was not impressive from the get go and the Lion's themselves bailed out the D a couple time. But the Vikes offense is not doing the D any favors. Be it short fields from punts on their own 10yd line to turn overs at mid field or even worse. Not to mention the lopsided time of possession. That really wears on a D. Even when we do score it seems to be on big plays, not long sustained drives. That's the kind of thing that pays off at the end of the game. Keeping the Vikes D fresh and wearing down the opponent's D.

  9. #29
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    Talking Ponder after that game? Ponder is not Peyton Manning. Get over it. The defense and special teams were awful in that game, and they couldn't run the ball at all. You might as well blame a Twins loss on Pedro Florimon not hitting three home runs.

    Something like 6 of the 8 times the Vikings ran the ball on first down, they got less than three yards. They can't win with that.

  10. #30
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    Talking Ponder after that game? Ponder is not Peyton Manning. Get over it. The defense and special teams were awful in that game, and they couldn't run the ball at all. You might as well blame a Twins loss on Pedro Florimon not hitting three home runs.

    Something like 6 of the 8 times the Vikings ran the ball on first down, they got less than three yards. They can't win with that.
    You don't think a passing game with the roar of a kitten had some impact there? Hell, I'd play ten man fronts and dare them.

    the loss may have been more on the D, but Ponder was absolutely a huge part of it. He isn't a capable QB, that impacts your entire team as proven by teams like Indy, Wash, Seattle, and many other recent examples.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    You don't think a passing game with the roar of a kitten had some impact there? Hell, I'd play ten man fronts and dare them.

    the loss may have been more on the D, but Ponder was absolutely a huge part of it. He isn't a capable QB, that impacts your entire team as proven by teams like Indy, Wash, Seattle, and many other recent examples.
    So you thought what, the Vikings were going to have a great passing attack this season? To be the team they expect to be, they have to run when the other team knows they will run. Again, this is silly. The loss is not on Ponder. If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.

    To sum up. Yes, not having better players impacts the team. Not being able to count on your supposed strengths impacts it more. The Vikings are paying for a running team with a good defense. If they can't run the ball, and they can't stop anyone, they will lose many games this season.

  12. #32
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.
    I'd like him to not throw three interceptions - at least two of which were absolutely god-awful, unforgivable throws. One of which was at a pivotal point in the game in the first half when they were up with a chance to go up by 8.

    I'd like that the team not be 2-10 in third downs. A competent QB, even working from a disadvantage, should manage better than that.

    No one is expecting Peyton Manning. At this point he can't even manage to be Tannehill, Bradford, Alex Smith.

    If he could manage competence, then you'd have a point. But he can't and the league knows he is an innaccurate, easily hurried, incompetent QB. Expect a lot of teams to make running the ball difficult for us for that very reason.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    The shear number of bad throws continues to astound me. Underthrowing, overthrowing, at the knees, at the back shoulder. Its pretty rare that you see him throw the ball on a line and hit a guy in the numbers in stride, and I can't recall a single strong throw, much less an accurate one, with Ponder rolling to his left (that needs to end, IMO).

  14. #34
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    That 3rd an one roll to the left: that was called by the coach.

    The team is built to run first, and ran on first down 13 times, and only gained more than 3 yards 1 time (I think, it might be 2). The team that is 100% built around running the ball, that team that was completely shut down but for 1 play running, that team scored 24 points Sunday.

    If I had told you that Peterson would have 3 rushes for more than 3 yards, how many point would you have predicted the team to score?*

    *that is an estimate, I haven't actually looked yet....
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Mike, the running game will likely suffer all year long as teams completely ignore the passing game. I thought the most miraculous thing about Peterson last year was to have accomplished all that against 8 and 9 man fronts.

    Ponder has an advantage the vast majority doesn't and still can't look competent. This is year three, the results speak for themselves.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    I'm right there with you Lev. The Vikings, and Peterson, wont succeed with Ponder at QB. Teams have no reason to not play run every single play. Ponder doesn't find open guys, doesn't audible into good plays, can't make throws into tight spots, gets hurried easily, can't beat the blitz... I think I could go on for a while. He is, and always has been, a terrible QB. I can probably only count a handful of times in 2 seasons where I said "Hey, that was a good play by Ponder."

    Last year was an anomaly for Peterson. Teams wont let him beat them anymore, they are going to play single coverage and stack the box. There is absolutely no reason to fear the passing game. Ponder might get a few big completions, but that is better than Peterson busting an 80 yard run.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  17. #37
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Agreed....and I was wrong above. We were up 14-6 by some miracle when he lobbed it to Detroit and they drove to make it 14-13.

    He almost single handedly turned 17-6 (minimum) into 14-13 with a comically awful pick. Lets be done with excuses is my thing.

  18. #38
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    I agree, no way Peterson is that good again. No chance.

    I don't agree that Ponder was the worst QB EVAR! last week, but I certainly understand the frustration (and I'm not a big fan of his, frankly, but I feel the criticism is a bit over board).
    Lighten up Francis....

  19. #39
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I agree, no way Peterson is that good again. No chance.

    I don't agree that Ponder was the worst QB EVAR! last week, but I certainly understand the frustration (and I'm not a big fan of his, frankly, but I feel the criticism is a bit over board).
    Thats fair. You're right the camps are pretty divided on him. Personally, I hope they absolutely suck this year with the QB class coming out - this team needs another high pick to fortify QB and a few defensive positions.

  20. #40
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    So you thought what, the Vikings were going to have a great passing attack this season? To be the team they expect to be, they have to run when the other team knows they will run. Again, this is silly. The loss is not on Ponder. If you expect Ponder to carry the offense, and get upset when he doesn't, your expectations make no sense.

    To sum up. Yes, not having better players impacts the team. Not being able to count on your supposed strengths impacts it more. The Vikings are paying for a running team with a good defense. If they can't run the ball, and they can't stop anyone, they will lose many games this season.
    The point of all that is...you can't expect to be a winning team in the NFL based on a running game.

    When the Vikings admit that, and find a QB who doesn't force them to try and do that, it'll go a long way towards fielding a winning team.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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