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Thread: Gardy's fixation on backup catchers

  1. #21
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    I'm with John, I don't get it.

    As I understand it, Morneau wasn't available to play the field until tonight, thus Gardy couldn't DH Doumit without taking Morneau's bat out of the lineup.

    SO Gardy was so paralyzed by fear of DHing one of his catchers while the other one caught that he did it at the first opportunity he had?

    And maybe I missed it, but I don't recall any complaning about this previously. Only after the ESPN piece, which didn't even talk about the DH thing, only the bogus issue that Doumit has been kept out of the lineup too much. Most of the stuff I read in national sources about teams in flyover country is garbage. That's why I come here.
    Morneau was always available to play in the field. They were easing him in... But he could always play in the field. Morneau publicly was starting to blame his slow start on not being able to stay sharp because of this DH role. Morneau was going to play 1B. It was just a matter of time.

    As for "the fear". It isn't a new thing. Gardy has talked about "the fear" since 1914. Just this year... He said he would not take Doumit out the game for late inning defensive replacement because of "the fear".

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post

    I'm expecting an announcement that Parmalee has been sent down and a 3rd C called up sometime within the next few days if Mourneau proves he can handle the field. Just hoping it's not Butera.
    If the team is injury free. Yeah... This will happen. you can't stop it. Parmelee will be sent down.

    Doumit will get more DH time. Parmelee will move into a RF rotation with Thomas and Plouffe. Parmelee needs to play like Revere needs to play and with Doumit DH and the fear. Towles is on his way. Also don't forget that they have 3 catchers in Rochester right now. Barring injury... This is a sure thing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    Gardenhire is the one who brings it up regularly, as reported in the local papers. If you want to call me out, at least make it for something he hasn't been quoted as saying over and over. Let's not forget, Thomas has been on the roster for a total of 2 days. But, hey don't let me get in the way of a good old fashioned irrational, the Twins are never wrong argument....

    I'm expecting an announcement that Parmalee has been sent down and a 3rd C called up sometime within the next few days if Mourneau proves he can handle the field. Just hoping it's not Butera.
    That would leave Rochester with only two catchers. Would they be able to continue playing? Or would they have to forfeit their games?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Morneau publicly was starting to blame his slow start on not being able to stay sharp because of this DH role.
    When/where?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    When/where?
    He didn't. Gardy said he thought Morneau pressed more when he sat on the bench and thought about his previous ABs.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Triple-A Gernzy's Avatar
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    I don't see us calling up another catcher if Mauer continues to catch the way he is.
    I bent my wookie...

  7. #27
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    John, from what I hear Detroit would've like to keep Thomas but didn't have room for him and tried to sneak him through waivers. He wasn't waived because he was bad, they were hoping that he would clear waivers so they could send him to AAA to get regular playing time. Kind of like what the Twins tried to do with Neshek last year.

    I believe that Thomas is going to be the primary Right Fielder from here on out.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    I wasn't trying to imply that in the 10 games this year Gardy had under utilized-Doumit. Come on guys, talk about a small sample size! Amazing how people that complain regularly about small sample size use it to rush to Gardy's defense after 10 games. The jury is out this year, and perhaps Gardenhire has gotten over his fixation, but you can't deny he has publicly stated many times his concerns about putting his backup C in the lineup. How many times over the last few years did many of us ask why Mauer wasn't the DH on days he had off from Catching? Why wasn't he in the lineup? Gardy has a long history, that includes direct statements of fear of losing his C in a game. If some of you want to deny that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. We will see what happens going forward, but I still think that either a 3rd C is called up to replace Parmalee or Doumit starts losing playing time to Thomas. I hope not, and I hope Gardenhire really has moved on from this, but history indicates one thing.

    Finally, it's possible to criticize certain aspects or decisions a manager makes without thinking he's an awful manager and that he should be fired. It doesn't have to be an either or thing. I would argue that questioning manger's decisions is a huge part of baseball, the slow pace leads to lots of time between at bats, pitcher changes etc. to debate these items. I think it's great we have divergent views on this, even though I don't agree with all of them, it's what makes forums such as this relevant.

  9. #29
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    If this lineup manages to go around .500 for the rest of the trip I'd expect to see something happen by the time they get back to Minny. Plouffe can play in right against left-handers, possible to see Doumit and Mauer rotate between 1st, catcher and DH and Morneau to get in a couple more games at 1st and DH the rest. This was the situation the team was realistically looking at at the beginning of spring training.

    The Thomas pickup has just made the RF situation a little more flexible and better in my opinion, it makes it much more plausible to send Parmelee to Rochester and bring up Towles.

  10. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RiverbrianMorneau publicly was starting to blame his slow start on not being able to stay sharp because of this DH role.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    When/where?
    From the Pioneer Press April 14

    Morneau, 30, has been candid about his
    desire to return to the field since he started regularly DHing midway through
    spring training.

    "It's not something I exactly want to do,"
    he said, "but if I don't at least accept it for a little while, I'll be going
    into it with a negative mind-set, and I have to go in trying to figure out what
    works for me. It's not easy."

    Morneau went 1 for 4 with a walk on
    Saturday and is batting .233 with a homer and two runs batted in.

    "Everyone says, 'Well, all you have to do
    is hit; you don't have to play,' " Morneau said. "It seems simple enough, but
    trying to stay loose, and trying to stay into the game and not feel like you're
    pinch hitting four times, feeling like you're part of the game and part of the
    team and not just going up there to hit, it's hard to do.
    "I have to try to figure out what works,
    but hopefully it won't be too long before I get back out there at first."

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    If the team is injury free. Yeah... This will happen. you can't stop it. Parmelee will be sent down.

    Doumit will get more DH time. Parmelee will move into a RF rotation with Thomas and Plouffe. Parmelee needs to play like Revere needs to play and with Doumit DH and the fear. Towles is on his way.
    Small sample size and all that... but Towles is off to the slowest start of the three. Butera is the one, ironically, who has promising looking AAA stats, due in large part to a home run. It will be interesting which one they bring up. Towles looked good in Ft Myers.

  12. #32
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Small sample size and all that... but Towles is off to the slowest start of the three. Butera is the one, ironically, who has promising looking AAA stats, due in large part to a home run. It will be interesting which one they bring up. Towles looked good in Ft Myers.
    Yeah... It could be any of the three. Butera would not surprise me. I'm just hoping for Towles. Maybe TR or Gardy will want to see what he can do because they have seen what Butera can do. Whoever it is will have little effect on the team because they won't play. Maybe a game every two weeks when Gardy thinks to himslef. Yeah, let's get you in a game.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 04-17-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    That would leave Rochester with only two catchers. Would they be able to continue playing? Or would they have to forfeit their games?
    lol... Love it...

    I think it won't be long and the Twins will issue a policy that catchers at all levels are not allowed to travel together in case the plane goes down. No night clubbing together in case of fire or gunplay. No sitting in the dug out side by side in case a foul ball clips both of them.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    So what's the option that everyone is pining for? Doumit at DH? I think everyone is OK with that, but

    a) that's only a recent option, now that Morneau seems to feel like he can play first base and
    b) what other good option is going to take over right field? Parmelee? Is he going to be any better defensively? Clete? Sure, defense is better, but he was waived for a reason. Plouffe? Fine versus righties, but Gardy was already doing that even with Doumit in the lineup. Revere? In right field? How does that make sense?

    What am I missing? I honestly can't figure out what people are criticizing.
    I think the concern is that Clete is going to start getting more PT than Doumit when Mauer is in the lineup so as to ensure gardy has a catcher on the bench. or that with Morneau playing in the field again, Parmelee is going to be sent down in favor of having a (useless) 3rd catcher in order to cater to Gardy's fear of losing his DH. Based on prior history, that's a legit concern.

    I'm willing to wait and see how this plays out afore trashing the manager, especially since he's made the move to break up Mauer & Morneau with Willingham in the batting order. I hope this means he will continue to make the right moves to get the right guys in the right positions and give them and the team their best chance to succeed.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Here's your small sample size stat of the day. Since we acquired Thomas, 4 games ago, Thomas has played in all 4 games, starting 3, Doumit has played and started in 2. Notice a trend? Doumit has not set the world on fire with his bat, but neither has Thomas. Doumit has a track record of being a good offensive player at the major league level, Thomas does not. It's too bad Thomas is a LH hitter, he would make decent platoon partner with Doumit if he could mash lefties. The good in a small sample: Twins over the last 4 games: 2-2, before that 2-6, so that's a positive trend.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    Had a chuckle reading Christina Kahrl's Roster Roundup on ESPN this morning: "Please think these things through: The Twins might be bad on offense, but Ron Gardenhire’s being a worrywart over having Joe Mauer and Ryan Doumit in the same lineup is a way to make a bad lineup worse." I couldn't agree more..

    Quote Originally Posted by whydidnt View Post
    I wasn't trying to imply that in the 10 games this year Gardy had under utilized-Doumit. Come on guys, talk about a small sample size!

    Sooooo........what precisely were you trying to imply when you said that you "couldn't agree more" with Kahrl's piece, the central point of which was that Doumit was being underutilized because of Gardenhire's alleged fear of having him and Mauer in the lineup at the same time?

  17. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    Sooooo........what precisely were you trying to imply when you said that you "couldn't agree more" with Kahrl's piece, the central point of which was that Doumit was being underutilized because of Gardenhire's alleged fear of having him and Mauer in the lineup at the same time?
    Actually the point wasn't that he WAS being underutilized. The point was that it's a bad move to bench him in favor Thomas. Keep in mind this was Monday morning, at that point we had 1 whole game on record with Thomas on the roster, you are among those that have tried to twist this into a discussion on Gardy's utilization of Doumit to this point. My point was that he has a known concern about putting his backup C's in the lineup and that it would be a bad move to take Doumit's bat out of this lineup in favor of Thomas. We can argue all day about whether my presumption that Doumit is better than Thomas for the lineup is right or wrong. However, since the only arguments any have posted disagreeing with this premise have limited it to a 10 game stretch of this season tells me the premise itself has merit: Gardy is a worrywart about his Catcher. It's a fact, he's admitted it to be the case, and I think it's a mistake on his part to be so concerned about it, and apparently so do some in the national media.

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