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Thread: Worse Record in Baseball

  1. #1
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    Worse Record in Baseball

    As of now, the Twins are tied with the Padres for the worse record in baseball. Familiar territory from 2011 (and the late 90s), but something that a lot of us cannot stomach...

  2. #2
    We should all get used to it unfortunately. The upper levels of the Twins minor leagues are BY FAR the worst in baseball so it will be 3 years before the reinforcements arrive. The bad multi-year contracts (Mauer, Morneau, Blacky, Carroll) make it less likely the Twins will be able to move these players to aquire minor leagues. And with guys like Blacky, Carroll, Marquis, Valencia, Casilla, and the entire bullpen - WHO WOULD WANT THESE BUMS ANYWAY.

    It will be some lean years around here and T.R./Gardy are not part of the answer.

  3. #3
    You might be right about Gardy not being part of the answer, but Terry Ryan definitely is. Who do you think got us out of the rut we were in in the late 90s? I would also argue that the multi year contracts for Blacky and Carroll should not be considered bad. Everyone knows we didn't get Carroll to hit home runs and drive in a ton of runs, but he does his job by getting on base, either via walks, singles, or doubles. And most importantly, he picks the ball up and gets it to first without too many issues. Blacky is making exactly what a typical 4th or 5th starter should make. He eats innings and is good when healthy (as we've seen so far this year).

    Look for the trade targets of the Twins to be Span, Willingham, Pavano, Liriano, Capps, and maybe Perkins. If Willingham keeps producing the way he has, his reasonable contract is likely to return some decent pieces. Same goes for Perkins. Recall the trade for Sergio Santos. The White Sox just signed him to a three year contract extension with three more options in the offseason, and Toronto was willing to part ways with some very valuable prospects for him. Pavano's expiring contract could entice a team down the stretch, as well as Capps (who likely won't get much in return).

    If there is anyone that isn't the answer, it's Bill Smith, and the Twins did the right thing by getting him out of the position he was in. He was overmatched and seemed underqualified for the job. I don't think any other GM out there would have let Mauer's agent take us to the whipping shed like he did in the contract extension. Nor would they have traded a proven position player for a pitcher in the Ramos/Capps trade (something you should never do). Nor would they have gotten basically nothing in return for Johan. Nor would they have botched the Delmon Young situation as poorly as he did. If anyone is to blame for the position the Twins are in, that's who you should be pointing your finger at.

  4. #4
    For once I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. They aren't getting blown out, and the April portion of their schedule is absolutely brutal. I assume they're going to finish off this stretch against NYY, TB, and BOS by being buried in the standings (5-15 may be optimistic) but from then on the competition gets much easier. Obviously the Twins aren't threats to compete for a playoff spot this season, but I think there is still some hope for a decent overall showing once this brutal April stretch is out of the way.

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    It's frustrating. But still, we've only played 6% of our schedule. I'm not going to throw in the towel because we're 4 games out with 153 to go.

    Plus this division, outside of Detroit, is pretty underwhelming. Hard to count anyone out of it until they get buried pretty far back.

    And while I'd put my money on the Tigers to win the divison, I don't think it's going to be the cakewalk that lot of people are predicting for them. They've got lots of power, the best pitcher in baseball, and a very good rotation. But their overrated bullpen and subpar defense are going to cost them some games along the way.

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    Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said that Justin Morneau could see time at first base during the club's upcoming six-game road trip.

    Ongoing concussion symptoms, and fear of re-injury, caused the Twins to shift Morneau to designated hitter to begin the season and hand Chris Parmelee the first base gig. Morneau is batting just .206/.270/.353 on the young season. Minnesota is best served with Morneau at first -- assuming he can handle it -- Parmelee in Triple-A and the DH spot open for Ryan Doumit and Josh Willingham.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack View Post
    It's frustrating. But still, we've only played 6% of our schedule. I'm not going to throw in the towel because we're 4 games out with 153 to go.

    Plus this division, outside of Detroit, is pretty underwhelming. Hard to count anyone out of it until they get buried pretty far back.

    And while I'd put my money on the Tigers to win the divison, I don't think it's going to be the cakewalk that lot of people are predicting for them. They've got lots of power, the best pitcher in baseball, and a very good rotation. But their overrated bullpen and subpar defense are going to cost them some games along the way.
    Exactly, this tough schedule isnt helping anything. Gotta be impressed with how Hendricks pitched today. Really hoping he can put together a nice season which would set him up for a permanant spot in the rotation next year. Hopefully with Kyle Gibson there too.

    Tough to see our best bullpen option coughing up the lead today.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Triple-A VATwinsFan's Avatar
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    Very much like the first part of last year the RISP rate is statistically impossible when you look at it in the games they've lost.

    Overall so far it is .214 (15 for 70). Take away the two wins and it is .133 (6 for 45).

    Once the Twins started hitting a bit is when they started the winning streak back in June and July of last year and I have no doubt that this year's team will be a better hitting team than last--it's the starting pitching which is going to keep them below 75 wins.

    Oh, and someone wake me when it's Friday please.

    I really don't want to look between now and then.

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    Um, Terry Ryan was the GM 4+ years ago....so, the lack of young players in the majors and ready players in AAA is from the time that Ryan was the GM. I'm not saying he can't be successful, but it's clear they drafted and developed insufficiently the last few years he was GM.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Um, Terry Ryan was the GM 4+ years ago....so, the lack of young players in the majors and ready players in AAA is from the time that Ryan was the GM. I'm not saying he can't be successful, but it's clear they drafted and developed insufficiently the last few years he was GM.
    I'm not sure how much of that is his fault. The 07 draft we took Revere, which was panned at the time but now looks like a decent enough pick considering how weak that draft class was. There were 64 picks in the first round and supplemental round, we had one, and only a handful of players have really busted out. The big shock was Mike Stanton lasting until pick # 76.

    06 we took Parmelee, Benson, Manship, Valencia and Tyler Robertson who might make it as a LOOGY. That's not a horrible draft, really. Benson's been a top 100 prospect two years in a row. It was another not so awesome first round. Parmelee, taken 20th, is already the 12th highest WAR player among those taken in the first round.

    In 05 we got Garza, Slowey, Duensing, Burnett, Tosoni (round 36!). Certainly some picks didn't work out and Garza was traded but all in all, I think the Ryan drafts were solid enough. Some picks were clearly financially driven, which shouldn't be a problem now, and with the second pick we should have a difference maker brought in.

  11. #11
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VATwinsFan View Post
    Very much like the first part of last year the RISP rate is statistically impossible when you look at it in the games they've lost.

    Overall so far it is .214 (15 for 70). Take away the two wins and it is .133 (6 for 45).

    Once the Twins started hitting a bit is when they started the winning streak back in June and July of last year and I have no doubt that this year's team will be a better hitting team than last--it's the starting pitching which is going to keep them below 75 wins.

    Oh, and someone wake me when it's Friday please.

    I really don't want to look between now and then.
    Pretty close to impossible to sustain this level of failure with RISP. Mauer has bounced into 4 DPs in 9 games, Morneau is 0fer against lefties and these are the guys that are proven middle-of-the-order hitters. If both hit like they did in 2011, there is no chance, but they both should be better.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer minn55441's Avatar
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    We all knew this stretch of games was going to be tough. The expectations among even the most optimistic fans called for a losing record after 20 games, so why panic now? I thought we have played much better since we left Baltimore. We had a great chance of winning both Saturday and Sunday against Texas. The starting pitching was much better than I expected. We were in the game or leading in the 7th both games, who would have guessed. 2-7 isn't great, but would you feel that much better about this team if we were 4-5 and had played essentially the same?

    If we can keep our starting pitchers healthy, we should be able to hang around the .500 mark. Not great, but about where most of us expected this team to be.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by minn55441 View Post
    We all knew this stretch of games was going to be tough. The expectations among even the most optimistic fans called for a losing record after 20 games, so why panic now? I thought we have played much better since we left Baltimore. We had a great chance of winning both Saturday and Sunday against Texas. The starting pitching was much better than I expected. We were in the game or leading in the 7th both games, who would have guessed. 2-7 isn't great, but would you feel that much better about this team if we were 4-5 and had played essentially the same?

    If we can keep our starting pitchers healthy, we should be able to hang around the .500 mark. Not great, but about where most of us expected this team to be.
    Hanging around the .500 mark would be a small miracle for this team.

  14. #14
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Every team will win 54 games and every team will lose 54 games. It's what you do with the other 54 games that matter.

    Therefore None of these games matter until we have lost our allotment of 54 games. Once that happens I will put my eye black on and swing my Homer Hankie around and get ready for Twins Baseball to be played. Right now I watch games on my couch in my typical american living room.

    Once the clock starts on those other 54 games that determine our fate, my living room with be themed with an artificially created playoff atmosphere. Crowd noise will be pumped in, Scalpers will patrol across the street, at least 3 vendors and Tim McCarver will move in and have his own spot for color analysis, inflatable games in the front yard and Geddy Lee will do the national anthem. (He actually sings OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAND OF THE FREE as the lyric and does this while playing bass, keyboards and foot pedals at the same time). I actually don't like his voice but he rocks it out.

    I've already hired artificial playoff atmosphere designers for that moment and contracted them for Mid June. It will cost me 347 dollars.

  15. #15
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Every team will win 54 games and every team will lose 54 games. It's what you do with the other 54 games that matter.

    Therefore None of these games matter until we have lost our allotment of 54 games. Once that happens I will put my eye black on and swing my Homer Hankie around and get ready for Twins Baseball to be played. Right now I watch games on my couch in my typical american living room.

    Once the clock starts on those other 54 games that determine our fate, my living room with be themed with an artificially created playoff atmosphere. Crowd noise will be pumped in, Scalpers will patrol across the street, at least 3 vendors and Tim McCarver will move in and have his own spot for color analysis, inflatable games in the front yard and Geddy Lee will do the national anthem. (He actually sings OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAND OF THE FREE as the lyric and does this while playing bass, keyboards and foot pedals at the same time). I actually don't like his voice but he rocks it out.

    I've already hired artificial playoff atmosphere designers for that moment and contracted them for Mid June. It will cost me 347 dollars.

    Well that sounds like a great time and all.....................I think........except the Tim McCarver part...and the inflatables (little creepy), oh yeah and I can't stand Geddy Lee (and I'm Canadian). Curious as to why he would be singing a variation of Oh Canada for the anthem, but hey, it's your party.

    The only problem here is the every team will win 54 games part, we all gleefully remember the 2003 Tigers, let's keep it a gleeful memory that stays in Detroit. I'm far too hopeful to think that will happen and way too rational to worry about it at this stage, but your pseudo-guarantee makes me nervous.

  16. #16
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Well that sounds like a great time and all.....................I think........except the Tim McCarver part...and the inflatables (little creepy), oh yeah and I can't stand Geddy Lee (and I'm Canadian). Curious as to why he would be singing a variation of Oh Canada for the anthem, but hey, it's your party.

    The only problem here is the every team will win 54 games part, we all gleefully remember the 2003 Tigers, let's keep it a gleeful memory that stays in Detroit. I'm far too hopeful to think that will happen and way too rational to worry about it at this stage, but your pseudo-guarantee makes me nervous.
    McCarver was the only one I could fit in with my budget. The inflatables are in the yard... McCarver is brutal with kids... I had to draw them outside for their safety.

    If you don't like Geddy Lee... I question your Canadianess. I had no problem believing it before. You seem polite... You have a good sense of humor... There is a slight slur to your typing so I assume you are drinking constantly. If you don't like Burton Cummings or Gord Downie either I will be suspicious. Come to think of it... I don't recall any Eh's in your posts.

    Let me ask you this... If Canada can produce someone like Tie Domi, Bob Probert and Zenon Kenopka... Why doesn't Canada have a better military?
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 04-16-2012 at 12:21 AM. Reason: A ghostly John Candy told me I needed emoticons

  17. #17
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post

    The only problem here is the every team will win 54 games part, we all gleefully remember the 2003 Tigers, let's keep it a gleeful memory that stays in Detroit. I'm far too hopeful to think that will happen and way too rational to worry about it at this stage, but your pseudo-guarantee makes me nervous.
    I remember... It drove the legendary 3B Dean Palmer out of baseball. However... In hindsight 2003 was a great year for my hated Tigers. That season delivered for them the 2nd pick overall which they used to draft Verlander.

    Look what's in store for our Twins. We're coming.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minn55441 View Post
    We all knew this stretch of games was going to be tough. The expectations among even the most optimistic fans called for a losing record after 20 games, so why panic now? I thought we have played much better since we left Baltimore. We had a great chance of winning both Saturday and Sunday against Texas. The starting pitching was much better than I expected. We were in the game or leading in the 7th both games, who would have guessed. 2-7 isn't great, but would you feel that much better about this team if we were 4-5 and had played essentially the same?

    If we can keep our starting pitchers healthy, we should be able to hang around the .500 mark. Not great, but about where most of us expected this team to be.
    You certainly are accurate, but sorry my expectations were set higher when we subsidized a new stadium. We were told the new stadium would help us compete with the best teams in the league for a change. Here it is not even into the 3rd year of the stadium yet, and everyone is just hoping to win 1 of three games against the top teams! I am soooo tired of low expectations for this team. When do we get to expect them to win? We should expect to be a team to considered in the same light as Texas, California, New York and Tampa, BTW of those 4 teams mentioned only 50% of them have payrolls significantly more than the Twins. Why should we be happy with a 2-7 start just because the schedule is "tough".

  19. #19
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    If the Pohlads wanted a winning team on the field this year there would be one! This is a management thing. The financial resources are there for a quality team, but upper management decided it was time to rebuild. If you wanted to continue winning, you wouldn't decimate the bullpen(last season), not sign your power base(Kubel & Cuddyer), leadership-Cuddeyer, and leave a top reliever(Nathan) go. If you would have kept the core until the young base is ready--plus sign a few quality pitchers--more than likely you would be competitive. That is why it is hard for me to accept the current position of this team. Most independent analyists think the same way(MLB FM).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Every team will win 54 games and every team will lose 54 games. It's what you do with the other 54 games that matter.
    Brian, I thoroughly enjoy your perspective and dry wit...and congratulations on the promotion to Triple A. I am still a rookie but no longer a newbie junior member.

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