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Thread: Why isnt Willingham hitting cleanup?

  1. #1
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    Why isnt Willingham hitting cleanup?

    A guy really cant start the season any hotter and hes not showing any sign of slowing down, so why are we not putting him at cleanup and Mourneau down lower? With span and carroll together averaging over .375 OBP how many more runs would we have scored thus far if Willingam was able to knock them in? Maybe we would have one another game or two?

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    Sorry I posted this before reading "notes from inside" thread

  3. #3
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    It may happen, but I don't know if 10 games into a season is the time to do anything much. I would like to see Morneau bat 4th against righties and Willingham bat fourth against lefties. But it's 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other... (making an assumption that Willingham will eventually hit a normal .260 instead of .400, and Morneau will hit like we think he can.)

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    I completely understand where your coming from, but whats wrong with winning games right now instead of maybe later? It seems idiotic to let Mourneau to keep killing innings at this point. Yes im sure mourneau will get better and willingham will cool down, but until that happens why not put the players in a position to produce the most runs?

  5. #5
    Hitting Willingham 4th wouldn't hurt anything and it could help with that whole lefty/righty/lefty split thing. I'd been pondering it myself.

  6. #6
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I'd be considering it too, but I don't think not doing it is trying not to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asmus_ndsu View Post
    I completely understand where your coming from, but whats wrong with winning games right now instead of maybe later? It seems idiotic to let Mourneau to keep killing innings at this point. Yes im sure mourneau will get better and willingham will cool down, but until that happens why not put the players in a position to produce the most runs?
    Something tells me that when you're in traffic on the freeway, you might be the guy that keeps switching to the faster lane...only to find you want to switch back once you've gotten over there.

  8. #8
    I think it's a fair question. Morneau doesn't appear anywhere close to regaining his form. His swing looks hideous right now, and he constantly waves at pitches nowhere near the strike zone. Now, that's not to say he won't get his timing back at some point this season, but right now he is basically an automatic out. Willingham is killing the ball, so it would make a ton of sense to move him up a spot. But in the end, this will never happen because Gardenhire is more worried about hurting people's feelings than he is about winning games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestTwinsFan View Post
    Gardenhire is more worried about hurting people's feelings than he is about winning games.
    One of the more ridiculous common sentiments/accusations expressed here (and elsewhere).

  10. #10
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Something tells me that when you're in traffic on the freeway, you might be the guy that keeps switching to the faster lane...only to find you want to switch back once you've gotten over there.
    I love Perfect analogies. High Five Cdog. I agree with asmus but the analogy is gold.

    I'd move Willingham to the 4 hole myself and I'd adjust the lineup up and down a lot over the course of a season in consideration of players on a roll and players not on a roll. Players get hot and they get cold... It's a streaky game and the #1 hitter as more PA's then #9 guy. And I would never bat Redmond in the three hole for lineup continuity sake.

    However, Gardenhire has won exactly 868 more games as a major league manager then I have. However he has also lost 761 more games then I have.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 04-16-2012 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Fingers not on home keys.

  11. #11
    Why is Gardy always so quick to move other guys around - infielders, outfield, etc., in & out of the lineup...but when it comes to Morneau, if he's playing he bats 4th?
    Willingham belongs in that spot unless or until someone else earns it from him.

    It may be early in the season but every game counts - and when you're the Twins, every run counts at this point. Willingham consistently can get the ball out of the infield; he would have driven in far more runs at this point if not for all the double-plays Mauer & Morneau hit into every game. If last year doesn't matter, then neither do the MVP years before that; I love them as much as anyone, but Gardy should make the M & M boys earn their spots in the lineup.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    I actually think Willingham should be batting 3rd, with Mauer 2nd. Mauer is much better suited at this point to bat 2nd and that would break up the lefties. It was pretty interesting seeing Ron Washington exploit the Twins lineup with a rookie left handed RP this weekend. Moving guys up or down in the order generally has little impact on your teams offense...it's certainly less important than "who" you have in the lineup, but in these days of specialization why not split the lefties up forcing the opposing manager to at least think about how he's going to manage the bullpen.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Double-A MWLFan's Avatar
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    Sounds like he is tonight.

  14. #14
    1. Span
    2. Carroll
    3. Mauer
    4. Willingham
    5. Morneau-sey
    6. Doughnut
    7. Valencia
    8. Clete aka Game Changer
    9. Casilla

    Also Morneau at 1st!
    Last edited by luckylager; 04-16-2012 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    I get that you don't want a lefty coming out of the bullpen late to face both Mauer and Morneau, but I don't think this switch is going to make much difference. The pitching is still the same.

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    "I don't think this switch is going to make much difference" -- well it does put the Hammer between the M's. At least I won't be so frustrated seeing Span and Carroll on, Mauer hit into a DP and then Morneau make another out.

    We'll get a chance to see if Willingham can do something different from Mauer and Morneau. Can't hurt to shake things up.

  17. #17
    I agree. A bit of a shake up can't hurt anything.

  18. #18
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Actually, I think Gardy pulled the trigger on J-Will at cleanup pretty fast. I'm also glad to see Morneau giving it a shot at first. I am not excitied seeing Clete Thomas start two straight game in RF, but he was productive yesterday. Let's see if they can put some crooked numbers up against Ozzie's son-in-law.

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