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Thread: Terry Ryan/Scott Baker 4:00 Press Conference

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:


    I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.
    Or you could've argued that Terry Ryan probably should have gotten a worthwhile player or prospect for Baker in the offseason instead of bartering Carroll's Competitive Elixir, Marquis' Magical Snake Oil, and Zumaya's Zingy Heat Balm to Twins rubes out of the back of a wagon in exchange for season tickets.

    They were going nowhere with Baker healthy. Now they're going nowhere without him or a prospect. The death spiral continues.

    What's the shortest period of time a baseball team has played in a newly-constructed stadium before moving to a new city?
    Last edited by LaBombo; 04-11-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Did the Twins medical Staff miss it again?

    Below is text from the St.Paul paper April 9


    Ryan said the Twins are trying to get Baker some peace of mind."He's trying. He works hard. What are you going to do? He just doesn't feel right," Ryan said. "Patience is going to play out here, and we'll see if we can get him going. I'm sure after he has the second opinion, if it's the same results as the MRI that we gave him in Fort Myers, that will give him peace of mind. So we'll move on from there."
    Last edited by Highabove; 04-11-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  3. #43
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    Does anyone know for sure (not just guessing) if there was insurance taken out on Bakers contract? If so, how much will they get back. Sad thing about is they could get 75% of the money back and wouldn't spend it anyway. Also, nobody is out there except Oswalt, who would never come here.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Or you could've argued that Terry Ryan probably should have gotten a worthwhile player or prospect for Baker in the offseason instead of bartering Carroll's Competitive Elixir, Marquis' Magical Snake Oil, and Zumaya's Zingy Heat Balm to Twins rubes out of the back of a wagon in exchange for season tickets.

    They were going nowhere with Baker healthy. Now they're going nowhere without him or a prospect. The death spiral continues.

    What's the shortest period of time a baseball team has played in a newly-constructed stadium before moving to a new city?
    What were they going to get for Baker? He spent almost the entire 2H of the season on the DL, and he's not exactly cheap.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I was locked and loaded to go ballistic (again) on the Twins med staff for this, but I can understand this one. First, here's some info on this injury:

    http://www.drdavidgeier.com/injuries...onator-strain/

    The usual diagnosis for this is rest - ONCE it is confirmed that it isn't the ulnar ligament, usually from an MRI. That's why the Twins, a week ago, said the MRI was good news. But this tendon has apparently been through enough that it appears the problems is chronic, or can't be pitched through. Thus, the "clean up" surgery, which I assume means smoothing out (or snipping) some frayed pieces of tendon.

    I could argue the Twins should have done an MRI a month ago, but I don't know if it would have changed much.
    Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

    Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneelb4zerg View Post
    What were they going to get for Baker? He spent almost the entire 2H of the season on the DL, and he's not exactly cheap.
    He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
    Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
    For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

    So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

    And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lwarring View Post
    For God's sake... bring back the pine trees and end the madness
    Amazing first post.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaDave View Post
    Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

    Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.
    Are you serious? Do you even follow the Twins? The "medical staff" of the Twins is beyond reproach after having more trouble keeping its players on the field last season than any other team in baseball? They led the league in DL usages at 27 for the season, and the Twins own F-ing GM Terry Ryan said the medical staff and its procedures would be scrutinized in the offseason, for god's sake. Last I heard he's not a doctor either. Wake up.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
    Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
    For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

    So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

    And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!
    I'm not sure what serious void Rizotti fills in the Twins farm system, I like the trade, but finding a no field, 26 year old AAA DH type isn't exactly that difficult. The Phillies (who have plenty of 1st base issues themselves) let him go for a reason.

    Not crapping on Rizotti, but to compare that trade to a potential hypothetical Baker trade is pretty silly.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaDave View Post
    Are you a doctor? If not it seems a little silly to go ballistic on the Twins medical staff for anything like this. They are trained professionals and some of the best in their respective fields.

    Being frustrated with information or lack of information (especially with Mauer last year) is understandable, but to play Monday Morning Doctor when you have no expertise in the field (unless you are indeed a doctor or at least have a decent medical background) seems ranty just for the sake of being ranty. Pitcher's arms get hurt, it's what happens.
    You do not need to be a Doctor to see the screw up. Read Ryan,s quotes leading up to the second Medical Opinion.



    Last edited by Highabove; 04-11-2012 at 05:55 PM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Are you serious? Do you even follow the Twins? The "medical staff" of the Twins is beyond reproach after having more trouble keeping its players on the field last season than any other team in baseball? They led the league in DL usages at 27 for the season, and the Twins own F-ing GM Terry Ryan said the medical staff and its procedures would be scrutinized in the offseason, for god's sake. Last I heard he's not a doctor either. Wake up.
    I think they deserve blame for the Mauer situation, for at the very least not being clear.
    But I'm not sure how the medical staff is supposed to magically fix arms (which ALL teams in baseball deal with) or fix concussion syndromes. My biggest problem was the fact they would have a guy sit on the bench "hurt" for 4-5 days before deciding to DL him. But I think that is more a GM/Coach issue than a team doctor issue.

    The Twins had a million injuries last year, but at the end of the day it comes down to really crappy luck more than anything.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    You do not need to be a Doctor to see the screw up. Read Ryan,s quotes leading up to the second Medical Opinion.
    Again, this is an issue with the front office and the fact they are absolutely awful at letting the press/public know about injury specifics (see: 2011 Mauer)

  13. #53
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsRich View Post
    Maybe Kevin Slowey is available...
    that is funny.
    Kind of scarey too.

  14. #54
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaDave View Post
    I think they deserve blame for the Mauer situation, for at the very least not being clear.
    But I'm not sure how the medical staff is supposed to magically fix arms (which ALL teams in baseball deal with) or fix concussion syndromes. My biggest problem was the fact they would have a guy sit on the bench "hurt" for 4-5 days before deciding to DL him. But I think that is more a GM/Coach issue than a team doctor issue.

    The Twins had a million injuries last year, but at the end of the day it comes down to really crappy luck more than anything.
    Hmm. Your opinion or Ryan's?

    I'm a little down on Ryan, but I'm going to go with a boss who hates publicly criticizing anyone, but who's disappointed enough with his medical and training staff to be critical of them in public

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    He's cheap for a guy who posted a 3.14 ERA with strong peripherals. Dirt cheap. And contending teams gamble on players coming off of injuries all the time.
    Especially ones with a logjam at a particular position. Quick, name a position where the Twins system is stocked...Ready, GO!
    For heaven's sake, the Twins gave cash to the Phillies for the "non-prospect" Rizotti, who out-homered virtually every player in the organization from top to bottom.

    So if a castoff like Rizotti can be gotten for nothing yet fill a serious void in the Twins' ailing farm system, how can you be certain Baker wouldn't be worth anything?

    And by the way, what were they going to get if he stayed healthy and pitched well? 88 losses instead of 92? Whoopadeedoo!!!
    Awfully easy to look back in hindsight and criticize for nottrading a Player who ended up seriously hurt. Did you ever think that a healthy baker could recover or increase in value? Should the Twins just trade every injury prone player, no matter the return?

  16. #56
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaDave View Post
    I'm not sure what serious void Rizotti fills in the Twins farm system, I like the trade, but finding a no field, 26 year old AAA DH type isn't exactly that difficult. The Phillies (who have plenty of 1st base issues themselves) let him go for a reason.

    Not crapping on Rizotti, but to compare that trade to a potential hypothetical Baker trade is pretty silly.
    Void? How about players who can hit for power, or even hit, for that matter? If AAA guys who can hit are so easy to find,
    why didn't Rochester have a single g*dd@mned one of them last year?

    Except for Plouffe, their two top homer guys were Dustin Martin, who they cut, and Jeff Bailey, who had 15 "bombs" and is 34 freaking years old. VOID!

    What's silly is that you don't get that Rizotti has value to the Twins, and cost nothing, and that Baker was worth more than nothing in the offseason. Nothing < Rizotti < Guy you get for Baker.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    The Twins Medical Staff MISSED THE DIAGNOSIS!!

    Two days ago, Ryan stated that a second opinion would give Baker some piece of mind. Then hopefully he could move on and pitch.

    Another embarrassment for the Twins Brass.

  18. #58
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneelb4zerg View Post
    Awfully easy to look back in hindsight and criticize for nottrading a Player who ended up seriously hurt. Did you ever think that a healthy baker could recover or increase in value? Should the Twins just trade every injury prone player, no matter the return?
    The inevitable hindsight 20/20 charge. You're missing the point, which is that Baker was apparently retained with the false hope of contention. If his risk of injury was so high that he had no trade value, then it's safe to say that

    a) the Twins should've planned on a rotation fronted by Liriano/Pavano/Blackburn

    b) the Twins should've planned on at least 90-95 losses with a rotation like that, and not bothered with Carroll and Marquis, and arguably not even Zumaya. Willingham is still Willingham, and can probably be cashed in at some point.

  19. #59
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    Bummer, I've always been a Baker fan. Not a fan of the Twins' medical staff, however. Nor am I a fan of how this team handles guys with injuries. They poopoohed this just like they have other guys that are actually hurt.
    Lighten up Francis....

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Void? How about players who can hit for power, or even hit, for that matter? If AAA guys who can hit are so easy to find,
    why didn't Rochester have a single g*dd@mned one of them last year?

    Except for Plouffe, their two top homer guys were Dustin Martin, who they cut, and Jeff Bailey, who had 15 "bombs" and is 34 freaking years old. VOID!

    What's silly is that you don't get that Rizotti has value to the Twins, and cost nothing, and that Baker was worth more than nothing in the offseason. Nothing < Rizotti < Guy you get for Baker.
    Again Rizotti is a 26 year old DH guy. He has zero value in the field, none. This is why guys like him are easy to come by. Slick fielding MI or even OF who can hit are not easy to come by. It's pretty simple.

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