04-11-2012, 11:43 AM #1
The Twins and Cutting Payroll
There's a lot of moaning about the Twins having cut the payroll for 2012. If you're one of the complainers, assuming you had $115M to $120M in payroll to spend, exactly where would you have spent it? Be realistic. The Twins were not going to get Pujols, Jose Reyes, C.J. Wilson, etc.
Here's a free agent tracker to help you out.
Please show how you would have spent $115M.
I'll help you out a bit
These guys were already under contract:
These guys were arbitration eligible
That's $6.88M; Total is now $71.13M. You have approx. $44M to spend on 15 more guys. Good luck.
These guys were signed as free agents:
The rest of the roster is made up of guys in the Twins system and are getting paid (typically) $.5M or the minimum of $.48M"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
04-11-2012, 01:52 PM #2
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Ryan Madson $8.5M - At free agency time, we didn't know he would tear an elbow ligament
Johnathan Broxton $4M
Erik Bedard $1M
Takashi Saito $1.5M - He's 41, but a career 2.18 ERA
That would be $25M spent free agents, about $4M more than the Twins spent this year, but it 3 bullpens spots would have been filled (if Madson stayed healthy) and you could have let go of Capps. There would still be room to sign Marquis $3M, Carroll $2.75M and Kerry Wood $3M.
The lineup stays pretty much the same, but you had some new and better arms to the rotation and bullpen.
04-11-2012, 02:10 PM #3
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I probably would have gone after Edwin Jackson instead of Jason Marquis, at the very least he has proven to be a very tradable commodity at the deadline. I also was in favor of trying to trade and sign Brandon Phillips during the off season when it looked like he was unlikely to work a new deal with the Reds. As it turns out his new contract is larger and more expensive than I had anticipated it would have been so I'm not upset on that front.
I was also in favor of signing Francisco Cordero or Brad Lidge to compete with Glen Perkins as the Twins closer. As it turns out the Twins decided to pay Matt Capps more than either of those two. So at least in that aspect the Twins actually did decide to spend more than needed. Why it had to be on Capps I have no idea. I would have gladly taken the suplimental draft pick he would have gotten the Twins and Francisco Cordero instead.
Of course the main point of contention with fans probably has to do with the Twins not offering the extra $1.5 million a year to keep Cuddyer and instead asking him to take a paycut to stay. Not ripping the decision, just pointing it out.
Last edited by nicksaviking; 04-11-2012 at 03:47 PM.
04-11-2012, 02:24 PM #4
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I agree with the overall setiment of this post. I have a problem with how they constructed their bullpen, but I don't think it was a case of being cheap, more so not using the money correctly (Capps). What does signing Ryan Madsen (pre-injury) do for this team? They won 63 games last year, why would they spend a premium price for a 1 year rental at closer? I don't understand the Marquis signing, as he seems like a guy who may not have had any other Major league offers.
I was overjoyed with the signing of Willingham for $10 million less than Cuddyer. Why were people in such a rush to reassemble a 99 loss team?
In my opinion, the Twins are doing themselves no favors by pretending this isn't the beginning of hopefully a short, rebuilding period. If they came out an explained to the average fan their plan to get back into contention, there may not be such a public backlash about the payroll decreasing.
04-11-2012, 02:29 PM #5
Why is it a given Jose Reyes was impossible?
04-11-2012, 02:31 PM #6
I really don't have a problem with decreased payroll for 2012. In fact, I don't think the Twins went far enough in that direction. I really think the Marquis, Capps, and Carroll deals weren't necessary and the Twins could have been as good without those guys and their contracts.
04-11-2012, 02:43 PM #7
Did Bedard really sign for only a million. Jeez. Even if he's good for all of 90 innings, that guy has always been effective when healthy. To think we lost $800,000 giving Zumaya an audition...Bedard would've been our "staff ace", no question.
04-11-2012, 03:02 PM #8
Many of the so called "complainers and moaners" are Season Ticket Holders. Twins Ticket prices are the 6th highest in Baseball. My seat back at the dome during the days of lower payrolls was $35, it is now $72. People pay more so they expect more. Are we forced to buy tickets? Of course not. Next year, many Season Ticket Holders may exercise their option to walk. Then you will really see the payroll drop.
Last edited by Highabove; 04-11-2012 at 03:16 PM.
04-11-2012, 04:20 PM #9
I posted something similar in another thread, but gladly take up the challenge:
I'm not offering Casilla arbitration, so that's another 1.38 - I have 45.25 to start with.
Ignoring the signings the Twins made and sign the following:
M.Wuertz 0.55 (not signed, assuming he'll sign for just over the min)
Total of 43.38 - which puts me about $0.5 million over when adding the remaining 5 guys at minimum. I could live without Wuertz if I had to. This gives me:
Bedard/Baker (One's likely to be injured)
Blackburn (if Bedard and Baker are healthy)
Saito (RH Setup, could close if Perkins fails)
Duensing (LH Setup)
Towles or whoever wins the spot coming out of camp if things play out like they did with Morneau
If you aren't comfortable with the the platoon in RF, or want to favor hitting over pitching and save a few bucks, you could skip E.Jackson, and replace him with a $2M B.Colon a $7.5M J.Kubel and 1M J.Gomes - Gomes and Kubel would be a great platoon in RF, with admittedly ugly D. In either case, the teams two greatest weaknesses are addressed with professional major leaguers in the middle infield and pitching. My team is still dependent on Mauer and Morneau rebounding to some level of previous performance, but with their salaries we don't have a choice but to count on that.
When you lose 99 games you have to be willing to blow up a significant portion of your roster, and that's what I've done. The Twins made a few fringe moves, but didn't address their core issues with guys that any other team would consider a solution. I think the team I put together would be very competitive and if things fell right could very well win a playoff spot.
04-11-2012, 04:20 PM #10"Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
04-11-2012, 04:26 PM #11
Bedard signed for $4.5M with the Pirates.
Doug Y--Like the Kerry Wood idea and Broxton. I like Madson, but he's kind of high dollar."Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."
04-11-2012, 04:58 PM #12
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Honestly, the moves I didn't like were Marquis and Capps. For all the angst on Carrol, there really wasn't much out there that could have been had cheaply. I was in favor of going after Bedard, Hardin, and a few cheap relievers with that cash, and as the market played out, getting Oswalt or Jackson on a 1 year deal with a decent option would have made sense, though I think those would have put me over.....
I think Harden is already hurt, but it would have saved a couple mill and to be honest, I'd be more comfortable with this rotation with Bedard in it, if for nothing else than to give Hendricks and Bromberg a bit more time.
04-11-2012, 05:25 PM #13
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These arms are still theoretically available - any chance the Twins consider spending the $ saved on Baker's insurance on any of these guys? Should they?
Kyle Davies (28)
Doug Davis (36)
Armando Galarraga (30)
Jon Garland (32)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Roy Oswalt (34) - Type A, no arbitration offer
Joel Pineiro (33)
Carlos Silva (33)
Rick VandenHurk (27)
Javier Vazquez (35)
Brandon Webb (33)
Michael Wuertz (33)
Joe Beimel (35)
Mike Gonzalez (34)
John Grabow (33)
Hong-Chih Kuo (30)
Damaso Marte (37)
Trever Miller (39)
Dennys Reyes (35)
Arthur Rhodes (41) - Type B, no arbitration offer
Mitch Stetter (31)
Last edited by Kirby_Waved_At_Me; 04-11-2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: removed Zumaya from the list of RHP
04-11-2012, 05:57 PM #14
I would look at Joel Pineiro, unless he is hurt. Never mind, he signed a minor league deal with the Orioles."Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."