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Thread: Keep in mind

  1. #1
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    Keep in mind

    Seen no less then 2 threads and about a dozen posters who are already calling for major changes, firings etc.

    The Yankees are 0-3
    The Phillies are 1-2
    The Mets are 3-0
    The Braves are 0-3
    The Red Sox are about to be 0-3

    Worrying to much about such a small sample size of games is a pointless endeavor. The hitting will come around, always does.

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    It isn't just the small size, though. It is how tremendously ugly they have looked in losing 3. Today was a slight improvement but overall, they have looked either ill-prepared or like they don't give a d*mn (take your pick).

    The one thing I'm waiting to see is whether any leadership emerges. Perhaps Carroll will really take charge or, if Justin continues to get his groove back, maybe we'll see some leadership (on and off the field). Given my non-expectations for this season, I'm content to wait and see what happens.

    "The hitting will come around, always does. " I really question that. I've been wondering where the Twins bats are for 2 or 3 years. (Please Bruno do a fabulous job at Rochester so you can unseat Joe Vavra).

  3. #3
    Let's look at it in a Bayesian way. The prior, except for those who were inordinately and irrationally optimistic, was that the Twins hitting would mostly suck, and that their manager was not good at getting the team mentally prepared for seasons/postseasons. Then you get data. The data are to the wrong side of the prior, which makes the original rational hypotheses of Twins suckiness even stronger.

    Pitching? The prior was for even more suckiness. Nothing really to starting moving from that position. Even if this was much worse than the Twins will look on average this year, there was ZERO that gave any hope they might be better than expected, if you look at the hitting and pitching as wholes.

    The Yankees must have done badly in some ways this weekend, but the prior is that it's a 90+ win team, so the events occurring this weekend likely won't change it that much, and it's much more plausible to believe it's a hiccup. For one, the best closer of all time and best last year, too, blew a save. Either he'll be back to form, or two other pitchers that no Twin can come close to will take over.

    Even a couple of the relievers the Twins will have to count on (Burton and Maloney) could do nothing but suck. It's an ugly, ugly looking season for the Twins. That could change, yes, but it's improbable. Even the reasons for optimism that probably won't affect the season (Morneau hitting, Swarzak pitching) can't really be looked at as anything but noise around the Twins suckiness.
    Last edited by twinstalker; 04-08-2012 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Completion

  4. #4
    Those teams also don't have one of the worst playoff records in the last 10 years, either.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    It's these 3 games that they looked really really bad, plus the whole last season, plus the GM (who built this 2012 squad) openly saying that he is concerned about the 'pen...

    The Red Sox did their changes last off-season for much less reasons.
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  6. #6
    Also, I never called for it. Just asked when the team would consider it.

  7. #7
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    Tito brings two world championships to Boston and is fired. Gardenhire's Twins are playoff embarrassments year after year after year, and then last year. He gets rid of Papi, Garza, and Hardy. What - does he have lewd pictures of the Pohlads with kids? How has Tom Kelly remained silent all these years? It makes no sense.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecore View Post
    Tito brings two world championships to Boston and is fired. Gardenhire's Twins are playoff embarrassments year after year after year, and then last year. He gets rid of Papi, Garza, and Hardy. What - does he have lewd pictures of the Pohlads with kids? How has Tom Kelly remained silent all these years? It makes no sense.
    For fairness' sake it was Kelly and Ryan who got rid of Papi. Ryan was quoted to say that he did not have the $ to keep both LeCroy and Ortiz and he chose LeCroy.
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  9. #9
    Ortiz was given plenty of opportunity here and didn't pan out... I don't really blame the Twins for that.

  10. #10
    So the Twins have one bad season, and lose the first three games of the next season, in the wake of the most successful 10 year run in franchise history (one of the best runs in all of baseball), and the best the fans can come up with is 'Fire Gardy'. Well what in the hell is that going to accomplish??

  11. #11
    That's the problem... People actually think the last 10 years have been a success. Winning garbage divisions and being embarrassed in the playoffs is a "success"?

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneelb4zerg View Post
    So the Twins have one bad season, and lose the first three games of the next season, in the wake of the most successful 10 year run in franchise history (one of the best runs in all of baseball), and the best the fans can come up with is 'Fire Gardy'. Well what in the hell is that going to accomplish??
    Thas has not been the 10-best years of the franchise. The years between 87-and the strike would be it. (if we are talking about the Twins' part of the Franchise because the Senators had some pretty incredible runs in the late teens and in the 30s)
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tiffee View Post
    That's the problem... People actually think the last 10 years have been a success. Winning garbage divisions and being embarrassed in the playoffs is a "success"?
    Umm yeah it is. Making the playoffs in baseball is the hardest thing in all of sports. The Royals haven't made the playoffs for almost 30 years for Chrissakes. Did you not have fun watching all this winning over the prior decade?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Thas has not been the 10-best years of the franchise. The years between 87-and the strike would be it. (if we are talking about the Twins' part of the Franchise because the Senators had some pretty incredible runs in the late teens and in the 30s)
    Fair enough but the overall winning % is higher.

  15. #15
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    They need some kind of different mindset, an emotional lift of some kind. They won't get it with Gardenhire in the dugout. The playoff debacles point to a guy unable to get his players mentally prepared. Confidence is everything, and he doesn't inspire it. I've never understood what anybody saw in this guy. What is it - that he looks like Festus from "Gunsmoke" and somehow that's charming? Only a stubborn stuck in his ways imbecile would bat Jamey Carroll second. It's just a gross insult to the fans to keep this tic around.

  16. #16
    Heh. I shouted as loudly as I could on these internet thingies that Ortiz was their best hitter, and that Ryan was an idiot if he got rid of him. I don't think losing Ortiz was anything but an ill-informed decision by the man who is supposed to be the most informed man in the organization. Ask him why they got rid of Ortiz, and he won't give you one good reason that really stands the test. It certainly wasn't statistical or his locker room presence. They would have been able to sign him for $1.5 million at most.

    These "little" decisions add up. At the same time I was screaming about this, I was screaming that they need to get rid of Jacque Jones. This was fall/winter 2002 when Jones was coming off what was predictably a season he wouldn't repeat, Ortiz was their best hitter, and Kelly had been gone for over a year (for the poster who blamed him). There are all sorts of efficiencies and inefficiencies at play in this game, and Ryan has consistently been oblivious to nearly every one.

  17. #17
    Right now a new manager won't mean crap, but he's by far the biggest reason the teams given to him underachieved. He won't be around by the time the Twins are good again, but that's mainly due to how long it's going to take.

  18. #18
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinstalker View Post
    Ask him why they got rid of Ortiz, and he won't give you one good reason that really stands the test. It certainly wasn't statistical or his locker room presence. They would have been able to sign him for $1.5 million at most.
    .
    The one reason I heard was that they could not pay both LeCroy and Ortiz and they decided to go with LeCroy.

    On the other hand (and I am opening a can of worms) LeCroy is White and Ortiz Black Latino. Not sure how much that had to do with it, but the (post-MacPhail) Twins do not have (let's say) a great record of signing and extending many minorities or going above and beyond to keep them...
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    The one reason I heard was that they could not pay both LeCroy and Ortiz and they decided to go with LeCroy.

    On the other hand (and I am opening a can of worms) LeCroy is White and Ortiz Black Latino. Not sure how much that had to do with it, but the (post-MacPhail) Twins do not have (let's say) a great record of signing and extending many minorities or going above and beyond to keep them...
    LOL. Good use of the race card!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecore View Post
    Tito brings two world championships to Boston and is fired. Gardenhire's Twins are playoff embarrassments year after year after year, and then last year. He gets rid of Papi, Garza, and Hardy. What - does he have lewd pictures of the Pohlads with kids? How has Tom Kelly remained silent all these years? It makes no sense.
    At the time I recall that no one signed Ortiz until late spring, March I believe. Ortiz blossomed in Boston. Now the reasons why may be another discussion, but not signing him was not a mistake at that time.

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