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Thread: Where are we?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    For the Mets:

    2008: -9.6 UZR/150
    2009: -12.5 UZR/150
    and for us? He had a positive UZR in 2007. He played the turf well.

  2. #22
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Ah, ok. I was baffled becasue he also traded Liriano last year. And I couldn't imagine getting too worked up about losing Castillo. Though I questioned it at the time.

    I always wondered if that Castillo trade was one of the reasons Ryan retired. That year, the Twins were really in between seller and buyers, so he tried to walk a middle path and got ripped by the players. Twins were 7 games back, if I recall, when they made that trade.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Ah, ok. I was baffled becasue he also traded Liriano last year. And I couldn't imagine getting too worked up about losing Castillo. Though I questioned it at the time.

    I always wondered if that Castillo trade was one of the reasons Ryan retired. That year, the Twins were really in between seller and buyers, so he tried to walk a middle path and got ripped by the players. Twins were 7 games back, if I recall, when they made that trade.
    He was a productive player for us, we got nothing in return, and the players felt Ryan gave up on them. And yes, we were 7 games back, but we also were 54-51 and in third place. We had the talent on the team and we were playing decent ball at the time. It wouldn't have been unheard of to make a run then. I can see why the players were ticked off. I was too when it happened. It's not like now when we're 7.5 back, in 4th place and sitting at 36-44.

  4. #24
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Also, I doubt Puck did that intentionally, but that reminded me of the awesome word filter back in the battle your tail off days of "Gold Glove Defense with a .300 average"
    That's "a gold-glove second baseman with a .300 average".
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  5. #25
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    Yeah, we all lament the Luis whatshisname trade every day. We dumped a superlative turf-playing gold glove .300 hitter who would clearly not have declined drastically right away like he did had we just kept him. That darn Ryan anyways. He never does anything right.

    That trade has been haunting us for years.

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    It wouldn't have been unheard of to make a run then. I can see why the players were ticked off. I was too when it happened. It's not like now when we're 7.5 back, in 4th place and sitting at 36-44.
    Add in the fact that the players knew (or had to strongly suspect) that it was their last year together -- Santana or Hunter or both were likely to be gone.

    (Although I always thought from what he said that Ryan retired because he just didn't want to deal with those situations).

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    Yeah, we all lament the Luis whatshisname trade every day. We dumped a superlative turf-playing gold glove .300 hitter who would clearly not have declined drastically right away like he did had we just kept him. That darn Ryan anyways. He never does anything right.

    That trade has been haunting us for years.
    As always, in your never-ending quest to defend Ryan and the Pohlads at every turn, you missed the whole point. Did you even bother to go back to the beginning of when I mentioned Castillo and see the quote I was responding to? Something about how the twins always want quality back in trades towards the deadline. Name the quality we got back.

    And yeah, that trade may very well have haunted us. Likely slammed the door on any chance of signing Torii that offseason or extending Santana with how ticked they both were with that trade of such a horrible player. Before Santana's injury is mentioned, there's no way to know if he would have gotten injured had he stayed and he did very well his first three seasons with the Mets, especially his first when he led the NL in IP, ERA and quality starts with over 200Ks

    And we all know how Torii has done.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 07-03-2013 at 02:32 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    As always, in your never-ending quest to defend Ryan and the Pohlads at every turn, you missed the whole point. Did you even bother to go back to the beginning of when I mentioned Castillo and see the quote I was responding to? Something about how the twins always want quality back in trades towards the deadline. Name the quality we got back.

    And yeah, that trade may very well have haunted us. Likely slammed the door on any chance of signing Torii that offseason or extending Santatna with how ticked they both were with that trade of such a horrible player.
    Yes, clearly we should have given Santana that 7 year contract he wanted, or that 90 million Torii wanted (when we had a cheaper replacement in house with Span)

    Or are you implying that if we would have kept Luis around that Hunter would have taken our 45 million dollar LESS offer than the Angels? Or Santana would have stuck around on a huge team discount as well?

    Give me a break.

  9. #29
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    Returning to the thread..."where are we now?" A full realization that this team is and was not (and won't soon be!) a strong team making charges to (much less through) the playoffs. OK, a near frame-off rebuild is what is happening--basically new everything. Trade ____, or_____, or even _____? Quite frankly I don't there is much that is actually tradeable. What/Who veterans that are suggested for trade have huge flaws. These veterans are likely better served to "put a better 9 on the field" than to trade them. True, the team could empty the minors of all of the top prospects--recall 2011? There was an outcry about watching minor leaguers, paying major league prices, in a brand-new stadium that was premised on having the money to put a good team on the field. It is an option--maybe even the best one--but it doesn't permit TV commercials with people singing "We're gonna win Twins, we're gonna score...".

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Yes, clearly we should have given Santana that 7 year contract he wanted, or that 90 million Torii wanted (when we had a cheaper replacement in house with Span)

    Or are you implying that if we would have kept Luis around that Hunter would have taken our 45 million dollar LESS offer than the Angels? Or Santana would have stuck around on a huge team discount as well?

    Give me a break.
    The cheaper replacement in Span? The guy who didn't even follow Hunter because they went out and got another CF instead. A guy who only got his break that year cause of Cuddyer getting hurt.

    We do know both Torii and Santana both asked why should they stay there if the team is always rebuilding. We know Torii wanted an extension before the 2007 season, a contract like Gary Matthews had just signed, and he wasn't approached according to him.

    I like how you cut my quote to exclude the part about Santana and how he did and how we couldn't know for sure he'd have gotten hurt if he stayed.

    I also didn't say for sure it haunted us as if it was 100% fact. So give me a break
    Last edited by ThePuck; 07-03-2013 at 02:40 PM.

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    I lost a lot of respect for TR over the Castillo trade. It was unnecessary at best. And I think its pretty reasonable to assume it didn't go over well with the players.

  12. #32
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    At this point, I think I'd be shocked if they dealt anyone. I think we're going to fall right back into Ryan's pattern that he just does not shop players aggressively at the deadline.

  13. #33
    I had more of a problem with Terry Ryan not trying to trade Torii Hunter and Johan Santana during the 2007 trade deadline.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pius Jefferson View Post
    I had more of a problem with Terry Ryan not trying to trade Torii Hunter and Johan Santana during the 2007 trade deadline.
    That was his biggest mistake. Made a bad muddle of the deadline and left a mess for Bill Smith.

  15. #35
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    That was his biggest mistake. Made a bad muddle of the deadline and left a mess for Bill Smith.
    Yep. Those two had legitimate value and he punted. Luis Castillo doesn't even rate. He was a two month rental of a mediocre, aging middle infielder. Who friggin' cares.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pius Jefferson View Post
    I had more of a problem with Terry Ryan not trying to trade Torii Hunter and Johan Santana during the 2007 trade deadline.
    I agree with this. Ryan made a muddle of the deadline and left a mess for Bill Smith.

    Tthe current situation is much different. Outside of Perkins there just isn't much of value. There might be a trade or two but it will be to clear roster space as much as anything.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yep. Those two had legitimate value and he punted. Luis Castillo doesn't even rate. He was a two month rental of a mediocre, aging middle infielder. Who friggin' cares.
    Santana, Hunter and other Twins certainly friggin cared. They felt they were in a playoff hunt and Ryan decided to trade a leadoff guy hitting .300, getting on base at over a .350 clip and playing good D and got NOTHING in return. Nor did he go after anyone to help them for them make a run at the playoffs.

    Anyway, the original point of bringing up the Castillo trade was that a poster said the Twins are usually looking for quality with trades around this time, so I mentioned that trade by Ryan that happened close to the deadline, which netted us zero quality whatsoever.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 07-03-2013 at 05:16 PM.

  18. #38
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    I've exhausted my point on this though and it really is way off topic, so I'm done with this line of the conversation.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    That was his biggest mistake. Made a bad muddle of the deadline and left a mess for Bill Smith.
    There was no need to trade Santana in 2007 (nor was there a need to trade him that winter) unless you were getting back a package too good to turn down.

    This is old ground, but the Twins would have been much better off letting Santana play out his contract and taking 2 draft picks. Many said so at the time, so please...no "hindsight is 20-20" comments.

    I also don't buy the "left a mess for Bill Smith" line of reasoning...at least not as much of an excuse. Smith had been in the organization for decades, was 2nd in line to Ryan, and certainly was well aware of what the situation was long before he sat down in the big chair. Ryan was still on the payroll and a phone call away, for that matter, if he was somehow missing some information.

  20. #40
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    Expect there may be a few trades. It will not matter for this year and probably not in the future. Only trade in the future would be Perkins and the Twins better get a very good deal to trade him. I can see Morneau being traded, but would like to see what he wants for a contract first, do not like Parmelle. But will see what this year brings. Domit might be traded, but would probably not bring enough value to ship. Problem with the Twins this year is no big talent to trade except Perkins.

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