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Thread: At what point?

  1. #21
    This isn't a Gardenhire-only problem, we're just lucky enough to have a consistently horrible manager who, when he finally has bad teams, leaves us with no delusions as to whether the Twins might actually be good. Thank you, Ron, you make everything crystal clear.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by VodkaDave View Post
    Sweet thread. Is this your first year watching baseball or something?
    Heaven forbid anyone demands some accountability around here... Keep making wise ass comments without adding anything into the thread.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecore View Post
    Be real nice to see them get rid of him, now, after this stirring nearly no-hit loss. Whatever managerial intangibles spur players on - he lost a long time ago. He should have gotten the ax six years ago. He's a very stupid man, and if they do start off 0-10 - the pressure will build and all the Gardy antics in the world won't save him. They need new blood at the helm, and in the front office. It's gotta happen, or the franchise will lose its value appreciably.
    I don't trust that the ownership has any clue as to how to go about doing the right thing. I basically agree with you, I just don't think it will help. And you should have written this Friday morning, because declaring the sky is falling after three losses is both easy and non-credible. Again, not that I disagree with you.

  4. #24
    I'd hate to move on from Gardy only to replace him with someone like Ullger... If you fire Gardy, you need new blood to come in.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Consider the circumstances of the Bill Smith firing - they fire their GM and replace him with the guy who was GM before and had been in Smith's ear on every single move he made. Then they rehire Smith as an adviser. Even when the Twins did eventually fire someone, they did it in a half-hearted kind of way. I truly believe that on any other team Gardy would already be on the hot seat, but with the Twins, the only one who can make Gardy not the manager anymore is Gardy himself.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    With another 90 loss season. Gardy will be respectfully let go with a very pleasent news conference. Everyone will say how much they enjoyed working together. Tears will be shed and a new manager with a new direction will be in place for next year. Gardy will get a job if he wants managing a different team almost immediately and Rick Anderson will follow him. The Mets would be my first guess.

  7. #27
    The Twins have a lack of talent. That isn't Gardy's fault. Half of our team belongs in Rochester. If we have success this season, it will be because of team chemistry and great coaching, which I think Gardy can provide.

  8. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Of 10,000 Beasts View Post
    The Twins have a lack of talent. That isn't Gardy's fault. Half of our team belongs in Rochester.
    Then Gardy should do great if he's sent down there too.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    48 hours ago I would have thought that Gardy was safe for as long as he wanted. But now I'm wondering. It's a nebulous answer, but it depends how the team looks as much as the results. If they look ugly, you never know. Things could go south much faster than I would have thought.
    John, I believe if this team has another 99 loss season, we won't have to worry about Gardy. He will retire either towards the end of this season or after the season. This type of losing gets to him and he will exit without being fired.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tiffee View Post
    I'd hate to move on from Gardy only to replace him with someone like Ullger... If you fire Gardy, you need new blood to come in.
    I love the new guy in Rochester. Now they are playing small ball!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Consider the circumstances of the Bill Smith firing - they fire their GM and replace him with the guy who was GM before and had been in Smith's ear on every single move he made. Then they rehire Smith as an adviser. Even when the Twins did eventually fire someone, they did it in a half-hearted kind of way. I truly believe that on any other team Gardy would already be on the hot seat, but with the Twins, the only one who can make Gardy not the manager anymore is Gardy himself.
    If you think Mr. Ryan was in Bill Smith's ear on every move, you don't know Terry Ryan. Out of respect to Bill Smith, he would only provide advice when asked and clearly stay out of the way. As for keeping Bill Smith, that was also an excellent decision. Smith has very little if anything to do with baseball operations. He is back doing things for the organization which he is very good at. Things like working with Lee County on the plans to renovate/upgrade Hammond Stadium. Those are the business type of things Smith will do a very good job at. I respect the organization for, 1) knowing Mr. Smith was the wrong choice for G.M.; 2) Bringing back an experienced G.M. who was as good as any; and 3) keeping Mr. Smith and reassigning him to something he is good at.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tiffee View Post
    I'm not trying to be one of those fans that overreacts over 2 games, [..] and the fact that the wheels are starting to come off
    Nope, not overreacting at all.

    I like Gardy, but it almost seems like his act is starting to wear thin, and sometimes change is a good thing.
    It's going to take something unusual for the Pohlad's to abandon Gardenhire. A rift between Mauer and Gardenhire perhaps. Or open disobedience to Gardy. Lack of hustle. These sorts of things might fall under your description of Gardy's act starting to wear thin.

    Let's face it, this team will be lucky to win 75 games, I'm pretty sure the Pohlad's know it so they can't put the blame on Gardenhire.
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    If you think Mr. Ryan was in Bill Smith's ear on every move, you don't know Terry Ryan. Out of respect to Bill Smith, he would only provide advice when asked and clearly stay out of the way. As for keeping Bill Smith, that was also an excellent decision. Smith has very little if anything to do with baseball operations. He is back doing things for the organization which he is very good at. Things like working with Lee County on the plans to renovate/upgrade Hammond Stadium. Those are the business type of things Smith will do a very good job at. I respect the organization for, 1) knowing Mr. Smith was the wrong choice for G.M.; 2) Bringing back an experienced G.M. who was as good as any; and 3) keeping Mr. Smith and reassigning him to something he is good at.
    Well said, Roger.

  14. #34
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tiffee View Post
    Heaven forbid anyone demands some accountability around here... Keep making wise ass comments without adding anything into the thread.
    What exactly have you added, except some insistent notion that changing managers is the cure to this teams ills? How about you be accountable,what would you or any other prospective manager do to make this team better?

    Gardy has had his fair share of playoff failure but he keeps bringing the horse to water, at some point the players have to be the one's drinking. As far as this weekend went, he put three different lineups out there and none but a few executed in any way, I don't think he put them in a position to fail, they didn't play the way they are expected to play and no manager can do much about that.

  15. #35
    HE should be fired NOW before he runs off any more decent players like he did with Papi, Garza, Delmon, Hardy, so on and so on. He will play you only if you are NICE and are 5'2" and scrappy (Punto/Butera/Carroll).

    After another 99+ loss season it is best to start over with new players, new coaches and a GM that knows how to evaluate players.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinswon1991 View Post
    HE should be fired NOW before he runs off any more decent players like he did with Papi, Garza, Delmon, Hardy, so on and so on. He will play you only if you are NICE and are 5'2" and scrappy (Punto/Butera/Carroll).

    After another 99+ loss season it is best to start over with new players, new coaches and a GM that knows how to evaluate players.
    He didn't run off Ortiz, Garza or Hardy... he has said repeadtly how he would have preferred that they would have kept Garza and Bartlett. Yeah, he obviously didn't like Delmon after the whole "I don't want to play today because its cold outside" but to be fair, Delmon was going to be DFA'ed after the season either way. The guy was just a massive dissapointment sans 2010 his whole time here.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Consider the circumstances of the Bill Smith firing - they fire their GM and replace him with the guy who was GM before and had been in Smith's ear on every single move he made. Then they rehire Smith as an adviser. Even when the Twins did eventually fire someone, they did it in a half-hearted kind of way. I truly believe that on any other team Gardy would already be on the hot seat, but with the Twins, the only one who can make Gardy not the manager anymore is Gardy himself.
    I think this is a pretty accurate statement. Why fire the GM only to replace him with his top "adviser"? Francona won 2 world series, had his team in the playoffs as frequently as Gardenhire, managed in a much tougher division and got fired after his team had one bad month. Yes, managing in a huge market like Boston gives him built in advantages, but when you say on any other team he'd be on the hot seat I can't argue. I just would argue that being in the hot-seat doesn't mean you should be fired. I think it does mean that it's time for the media to stop perpetuating the notion that Gardenhire is immune to his team performing poorly and start putting him on the hot seat and forcing him to make tough, good decisions.

  18. #38
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    I've deleted a few personal attacks already on this thread. There are a few more that I should probably go after, but there's enough out here that it's going to be easier to just start banning users. If you want to argue against someone's point, you should be able do so without "fans like you" or "you don't do this" or "you don't do that." If you see posts like this report them, don't reply in kind. Thanks.

  19. #39
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    This problem is deeper than Gardy. He is just part of a whole organization that needs revamping. It goes to philosophy -- the front office--the Pohlads with an unwillingness to step up to the plate and sign quality free agents. When the strength of your farm system is in the lower minors-you then do like the Cardinals and sign what your team needs to contend.
    I listened to the baseball network on XM yesterday and a guy from Iowa called in asked about the Twins. Casey Stern said that the Twins are an organization that he can't understand. He said that most organizations when they almost get to the top try to add pieces to go to the next level. But, the Twins have taken the other approach and are dismantling the team. You would have to assume that the Pohalds have told Ryan to cut payroll. Again, this organization needs a transformation in philospphy!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb18 View Post
    This problem is deeper than Gardy. He is just part of a whole organization that needs revamping. It goes to philosophy -- the front office--the Pohlads with an unwillingness to step up to the plate and sign quality free agents. When the strength of your farm system is in the lower minors-you then do like the Cardinals and sign what your team needs to contend.
    I listened to the baseball network on XM yesterday and a guy from Iowa called in asked about the Twins. Casey Stern said that the Twins are an organization that he can't understand. He said that most organizations when they almost get to the top try to add pieces to go to the next level. But, the Twins have taken the other approach and are dismantling the team. You would have to assume that the Pohalds have told Ryan to cut payroll. Again, this organization needs a transformation in philospphy!
    I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Back in the small market days, the Twins did let talent walk out and didn't add much payroll when it seemed they were close and that annoyed a lot of people. But the last few years payroll wasn't really the problem - we took on salary and made some nice free agent signings that helped immensely in 2010. Now that we're back to rebuilding mode, signing big free agents doesn't make sense.

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