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Thread: Article: Twins' Rotation is Begging For Change

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Maybe they don't want to bring up Gibson until they finally have a new pitching coach at the major league level. (One can only hope).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Maybe they don't want to bring up Gibson until they finally have a new pitching coach at the major league level. (One can only hope).
    Do you think, at this point, he's sitting there wondering what in the heck he has to do to get promoted?

  3. #23
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    I would be very frustrated right now, if I were Gibson.....can't imagine what his agent is thinking right now. Unfortunately for Kyle, he's 25......he'll be lucky to get to FA.
    Lighten up Francis....

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I would be very frustrated right now, if I were Gibson.....can't imagine what his agent is thinking right now. Unfortunately for Kyle, he's 25......he'll be lucky to get to FA.
    A lot of people are assuming that the manager or another Twins official hasn't spoken to him about what to expect.

    It's very possible they haven't... But it's also very possible that they have.

  5. #25
    I like the thought that the Orioles are interested in Plefry. Someone needs to grab him...away from us. Maybe the Twins can trade Pelfry for a package of casilla, Valencia and...Lew Ford!

    Diamond just can't get past the fifth inning. Gibson is pitching past the 5th inning and eating up his season innings too fast. Are the Twins going to shut him down?

    The other starters on the staff: Hendriks, DeVries and Hernandez are all comparable to Diamond, at the moment. Clearly, the Twins do need to do something. I don't see the triple threat I just mentioned being the future of the Twins, but then again, didn't see Deduno and Walters teaming with Correia to be the Twins rotation this year, either.

    Do we still think the Twins will find a way to bring back Nick Blackburn to make, what might amount, to a single $5 million dollar start in the majors?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    A lot of people are assuming that the manager or another Twins official hasn't spoken to him about what to expect.

    It's very possible they haven't... But it's also very possible that they have.
    Would it matter? Unless they have said, "we'll pay you more than we need to, don't worry", does it matter that they've explained to him why he's still down? How do you feel when your boss explains why you won't be promoted this year?
    Lighten up Francis....

  7. #27
    What I have noticed about Diamond is that most of his starts go well for 4-5 innings, but he runs into a lot of trouble in innings 6 and 7...id honeslty lime to know his splits for those innings....hes 26, he has some success in the past, id give him a pass right now so i wont be jumping off the wagon just yet

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerickasdad34 View Post
    What I have noticed about Diamond is that most of his starts go well for 4-5 innings, but he runs into a lot of trouble in innings 6 and 7...id honeslty lime to know his splits for those innings....hes 26, he has some success in the past, id give him a pass right now so i wont be jumping off the wagon just yet
    How many starts does he get? He had a flukish good year last year, that doesn't mean he will continue to have good years. His past is more indicative of his results this year than last. He's had 13 starts, when is it time to jump off the wagon?
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  9. #29
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Would it matter? Unless they have said, "we'll pay you more than we need to, don't worry", does it matter that they've explained to him why he's still down? How do you feel when your boss explains why you won't be promoted this year?
    It absolutely matters. There's a huge difference between being passed over for a promotion and ignored entirely versus being passed over for a promotion while being told "this is our reasoning for doing this right now and you'll get the promotion soon".

    Both are disappointing but one gives hope for the near future.

  10. #30
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Nygaard View Post
    The Twins are going to send Diamond down for a month... not because he's been brutal, but because it would mean an extra year of team control. Send him down for six and he'll avoid super-2 status after next season too. Win, win, win.
    Diamond had 1.016 in service going into this year. As I understand it, he would need to be down for three weeks to fall below the years threshold, but I'm not exactly sure. As far as Super 2, the way I see it is that if he logs another month this year plus the full year of 2014, he would be eligible for arbitration. It would not surprise me if that entered into any equation on the demotion of last year best starter. However, I see absolutely no reason to delay Gibson's major league debut.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    How many starts does he get? He had a flukish good year last year, that doesn't mean he will continue to have good years. His past is more indicative of his results this year than last. He's had 13 starts, when is it time to jump off the wagon?
    So 13 starts mean more than 30? Doesnt make much sense there....besides what are we in a rush for? You think this year we are gonna contend? Unlike worley who wasnt showing anything, atleast diamond shows some hints of last yr, he just cant finish off his starts....They need to see if diamond can ride this out and regain last years stuff.

  12. #32
    Gibson simply has not been consistent. Sure, he's got 3 really great starts in his past 10. On May 8, he threw a shutout. his next start: 3 IP 7 hits and a walk. May 19th, another shutout. Followed that with 8 innings of no run ball. May 30th? 6 Innings 8 hits, two walks and 6 runs. June has been uninspiring. 26 IP, 22 Hits and 9 Walks. The only reason he didn't give up more runs in that span is the teams he was facing are averaging 4.2 Runs per game. These three teams all have TEAM OPS of .716,.715, and .713. Overall, nobody can hit in the IL, but these are some of the worst hitting teams in the league.

    If Gibson were really demanding to come up, these teams would all be getting shut out by him. Instead he's giving up all sorts of hits, throwing tons of pitches and only lasting 6 innings. I see no pressing reason to expose him to the bigs right now.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    Gibson simply has not been consistent. Sure, he's got 3 really great starts in his past 10. On May 8, he threw a shutout. his next start: 3 IP 7 hits and a walk. May 19th, another shutout. Followed that with 8 innings of no run ball. May 30th? 6 Innings 8 hits, two walks and 6 runs. June has been uninspiring. 26 IP, 22 Hits and 9 Walks. The only reason he didn't give up more runs in that span is the teams he was facing are averaging 4.2 Runs per game. These three teams all have TEAM OPS of .716,.715, and .713. Overall, nobody can hit in the IL, but these are some of the worst hitting teams in the league.

    If Gibson were really demanding to come up, these teams would all be getting shut out by him. Instead he's giving up all sorts of hits, throwing tons of pitches and only lasting 6 innings. I see no pressing reason to expose him to the bigs right now.
    That works out to a 1.19 WHIP, which would lead the Twins. Also, in June, he has pitched seven innings twice and six innings twice. If you're waiting for him to be perfect before his callup, you're going to be waiting forever.
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerickasdad34 View Post
    So 13 starts mean more than 30? Doesnt make much sense there....besides what are we in a rush for? You think this year we are gonna contend? Unlike worley who wasnt showing anything, atleast diamond shows some hints of last yr, he just cant finish off his starts....They need to see if diamond can ride this out and regain last years stuff.
    I don't necessarily disagree with this regarding Diamond, but Worley was just as good, if not better than Diamond back in 2011, and he's younger.
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  15. #35
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerickasdad34 View Post
    What I have noticed about Diamond is that most of his starts go well for 4-5 innings, but he runs into a lot of trouble in innings 6 and 7...id honeslty lime to know his splits for those innings....hes 26, he has some success in the past, id give him a pass right now so i wont be jumping off the wagon just yet
    1st, 5th and 6th:

    Scott Diamond 2013 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    Thanks for the link, yeah guess its 5 and 6th mostly with some on the first

  17. #37
    Senior Member Double-A chuchadoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    It absolutely matters. There's a huge difference between being passed over for a promotion and ignored entirely versus being passed over for a promotion while being told "this is our reasoning for doing this right now and you'll get the promotion soon".

    Both are disappointing but one gives hope for the near future.
    What reasoning could be given in this hypothetical conversation?

    1. Gibby, you've been pitching really well the past six weeks but we need to see you do it at AAA a little longer. Keep it up and you might get to make a few starts with the big club.

    2. Gibby, you've been pitching well lately but there just isn't a spot in the rotation right now. The guys up here are pitching too well to take out and are important members of the club's present and future.

    3. You're doing great, kid, but we're a bunch of cheap d**ks and want to delay your service time as long as possible. TS, bro.

    4. Derp derp "Gibson-ly" starts blah blah "Gibson-ish" attitude derp high levels of "Gibson-icity".

    Anyone have other possible explanations? #4 is the only one that holds any water IMO.

  18. #38
    Two outing of 6 innings and two of 7 innings is not a guy kicking on the door to the bigs. It's a guy who's struggling to keep his pitch counts in order against poor hitting teams. I'm not waiting for him to be perfect, I'm waiting for him to be dominant over more than one or two games. Else, might as well wait until next year, since they're gonna have to shut him down in 60 or so innings anyway.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with this regarding Diamond, but Worley was just as good, if not better than Diamond back in 2011, and he's younger.
    True, but worley put up his numbers in the national league where diamond did it in the american...plus worley is gettin pounded in AAA anyway not really pounding on the door to come back

  20. #40
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    Two outing of 6 innings and two of 7 innings is not a guy kicking on the door to the bigs. It's a guy who's struggling to keep his pitch counts in order against poor hitting teams. I'm not waiting for him to be perfect, I'm waiting for him to be dominant over more than one or two games. Else, might as well wait until next year, since they're gonna have to shut him down in 60 or so innings anyway.
    You've looked at the Twins' rotation, right? There is simply no reason to block Gibson getting a taste of MLB hitting at this point. He's the future of this team and should get his version of a "cup of coffee" before he's shut down.

    Gibson has been very good against AAA hitting in the past 6-8 weeks. No, he hasn't been perfect. No one is arguing that... but he has been good enough to warrant a call-up, especially when the MLB roster is manned by guys like Mike Pelfrey.

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