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Thread: Kyle Gibson, Andrew Albers and consistency

  1. #21
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Hey, I have a great idea.

    Throw away any combination of Walters, Deduno, and Pelfrey and then call up both Albers and Gibson.

    Radical thinking, I know. Craziness. Cats and dogs, living together.

  2. #22
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    What I wouldn't give for a BYTO-style word filter for 'consistency'.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    The thing with Gibson is the twins want and need him to pitch like a number 2 when he is called up, so if they still have things to improve with him, there is no rush. While I don't doubt he could "hold his own" now, I want him to come up and be a game changer in the majors, not just another mid to back end guy
    The same could be said for Hicks on working on some things to be a more effective leadoff batter, switch-hitter and defensive centerfielder. Why doesn't Hicksie just stay down until he's a game-changer, too?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    What I wouldn't give for a BYTO-style word filter for 'consistency'.
    There's an article waiting to be written, rank-ordering the Twins depth chart for "consistency", I'd wager that whoever writes that article will stumble upon evidence strongly suggesting that Kyle Gibson is, in fact, one of the most consistent Twins SPs.on that chart.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWLFan View Post
    Could it be that Albers is underperfoming Gibson and the Twins know it, but they are not worried about his Service time? But if they admit that Gibson is not up here due to $$$'s they will be ripped for being cheap in some corners of the internet and will fester bad will in Gibson and his agent. So maybe this is just a PR dance that TR is doing for all our ameusment. I know they have not seemed to care about this issue with Hicks and Arcia, but is good pitching costs more premuim than that of good hitting? I know they say they would not let $$'s stand in the way, but you know he is so close right now why take a chance he could cost us a few more million down the road for about 8 to 10 days of time in June 2013. But on the other hand maybe they just don't like Gibson so much. Or they really believe that this collection of arms that are currently at the Major League Level give them the best chance to win. I hope it is one or two, becasue if they really believe 3 then we are all...for the next 5 years when they think Clete Thomas is a better alternative then Byron Buxton.
    Buxton on the 5 year plan?

    We are not amused.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Hageman View Post
    Over the weekend Terry Ryan hinted to reporters that the next in line for a rotation spot may be the left-handed Andrew Albers:



    Is Albers really pitching better than anyone down there? Including Kyle Gibson? Here is just a cursory look at the pairís numbers over the last month:

    Albers (last six starts): 5-0, 38.2 IP, 32-to-10 K-to-BB, .267 average against, .730 OPS against and a 3.26 ERA (3.40 FIP on the year).

    Gibson (last six starts): 4-0, 42.1 IP, 35-to-15 K-to-BB, .201 average against, .529 OPS against and a 2.55 ERA (3.29 FIP on the year).

    Frankly, I like Albers. I was able to watch a few of his bullpens in spring training in 2012 and was very impressed by the movement on his pitches Ė particularly his fastball. He clearly throws strikes but does not miss a ton of bats (8% swinging strike rate). He deserves a shot at the rotation as much as anyone else.

    What I donít understand is this none-too-subtle jabs at Gibsonís consistency. Statistically, over the last month and change, his numbers have been superior to those of Albers. Heís pitched more innings, allowed a lower average and has an OPS 200 points lower than Albers. Lacking the personal attention of seeing Gibson pitch in person, I cannot say if heís unable to location certain pitches or has been falling behind far too much that is unappetizing to the Twinsí brass.

    It simply cannot be consistency that is keeping Gibson down Ė he has been at least as consistent as Andrew Albers.
    Albers has been doing a better job of pitching to contact. Isn't that what's most important?

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    If nothing else, this is stupid for the message it sends to Gibson.

  8. #28
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    The handling of gibson is just Ryan preparing for arbritation, claiming hes inconsistant,
    start claiming it now and save money later , attaboy Curly

  9. #29
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    5-0 > 4-0. Case closed.
    There isn't enough defense on the planet to justify giving 500+ PA to a guy who can barely OPS .600.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    I'd rather have Albers than Diamond. Seriously.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Gibson was inconsistent earlier, but he has done well the past 5 starts. So has Albers. Gibson does have better numbers over the past 28 days, although not by much, so I would be happy either way.

    Since in general I don't buy into the whole conspiracy theory or that the team has favorites and/or people they just don't like, there could be a couple of other factors involved as well. Gibson is recovering from TJ surgery, and it is entirely possible that they see something in his delivery/starts that gives them pause to pull the trigger quite yet, something that wouldn't show up in AAA numbers but would in MLB numbers. Also, Albers is a leftie, so particularly if Diamond is looking at being taken out of the rotation, that could also be a factor.

    Again, all speculation, but I guess I just don't see this as some nefarious plot.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    The thing with Gibson is the twins want and need him to pitch like a number 2 when he is called up, so if they still have things to improve with him, there is no rush. While I don't doubt he could "hold his own" now, I want him to come up and be a game changer in the majors, not just another mid to back end guy
    So make him wait another year before he gets regular experience at the big league level? Are we seriously waiting becuase we want him to be ready to win the Cy Young the second he gets called up?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I have a hard time believing that there isn't still something wrong with Diamond.
    Unless one was to think 2012 was the exception not the rule for him.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    The handling of gibson is just Ryan preparing for arbritation, claiming hes inconsistant,
    start claiming it now and save money later , attaboy Curly
    The coast is apparently clear on Super 2 arbitration issues, as Wil Myers will be in the starting lineup tomorrow night against Boston. Wil Myers Called to Action By Tampa Bay Rays | Bleacher Report

    How long before Gibson gets his own call now?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoPilgrim View Post
    Gibson was inconsistent earlier, but he has done well the past 5 starts. So has Albers. Gibson does have better numbers over the past 28 days, although not by much, so I would be happy either way.

    Since in general I don't buy into the whole conspiracy theory or that the team has favorites and/or people they just don't like, there could be a couple of other factors involved as well. Gibson is recovering from TJ surgery, and it is entirely possible that they see something in his delivery/starts that gives them pause to pull the trigger quite yet, something that wouldn't show up in AAA numbers but would in MLB numbers. Also, Albers is a leftie, so particularly if Diamond is looking at being taken out of the rotation, that could also be a factor.

    Again, all speculation, but I guess I just don't see this as some nefarious plot.
    Who said anything about nefarious?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post

    Lastly, whether Gibson pitchers 5, 50 or 150 innings for the Twins this year it changes nothing about next year. He is still going to open up the season with the Twins and , barring an injury or a Blackburnesque collapse, will have a spot in the rotation all season long. That will be his year to perform regardless of what he does or does not do this year. So while we might be itching for him to come up so we can "oooh" and "ahhhhh" at the pitching when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture this year means little for Gibson's career or the Twins future.
    So you're saying big league experience is completely unimportant? I agreed with everything else you said, but I feel he would still benefit from getting MLB innings if for nothing more than the experience factor so he has something to build upon next year when he is a regular.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    6 weeks ago I was one who wanted to see more consistency out of Gibson. At that point he was literally Good-Bad-Good-Bad. Since then he has only had one really bad start out of his last seven or so. I think at this point I think he is capable of coming up and performing as well as any other pitcher.

    That said, Albers is having a fantastic year as well. There is nothing wrong with Ryan acknowledging that. At this point he hasn't promoted Albers instead of Gibson or anything, he only replied to a question he may or may not have been prepared for. If another pitcher was needed who knows what would actually happen.

    Lastly, whether Gibson pitchers 5, 50 or 150 innings for the Twins this year it changes nothing about next year. He is still going to open up the season with the Twins and , barring an injury or a Blackburnesque collapse, will have a spot in the rotation all season long. That will be his year to perform regardless of what he does or does not do this year. So while we might be itching for him to come up so we can "oooh" and "ahhhhh" at the pitching when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture this year means little for Gibson's career or the Twins future.
    Frankly, I doubt that there will be a cascade of oohing and ahhhhing possibilities this year. And that is hardly the point for getting him up to the Twins. He is on limited innings and this is the perfect situation to get his feet wet and help him prepare for opening day next season. It's like anything you do in life that's challenging, get some practice and continued reps against the real thing, you can find out now what you need to work on and address both this season and in the offseason.

    At his current 85.2 IP already, the opportunities for doing so are rapidly dwindling.

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    They are purposefully tanking.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  19. #39
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    Lots of small sample discussion here. Hopefully the Twins aren't using stats in these size samples to make a decision. Evaluation of the coaches and staff at the games should carry much more weight. The whole season sample may be enough to look at strike out rate and ground ball/fly ball rate. It certainly isn't large enough to look at only a handful of starts. Any assessment of consistency can only be made by first hand observation.

    If there is concern about Gibson's innings and stress, AAA innings will be less stress on the arm than major league innings. Any pitcher is going to face more difficult higher pitch count innings against a major league lineup. The innings and longer outings in AAA will help to rebuild arm strength. Every decision about Gibson has to made with the plan for him to get 30 starts in 2014. Clearly time in the majors will help him be successful next year, but he doesn't need to be up yet.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm3319 View Post
    So you're saying big league experience is completely unimportant? I agreed with everything else you said, but I feel he would still benefit from getting MLB innings if for nothing more than the experience factor so he has something to build upon next year when he is a regular.
    You think 70 innings this year is going to change how Gibson pitches in 2015 and 2016? That is when the Twins might be starting their window of contention.

    Personally I think it will have little impact compared to the, hopefully, 200 innings next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    He is on limited innings and this is the perfect situation to get his feet wet and help him prepare for opening day next season. It's like anything you do in life that's challenging, get some practice and continued reps against the real thing, you can find out now what you need to work on and address both this season and in the offseason.

    At his current 85.2 IP already, the opportunities for doing so are rapidly dwindling.
    What is so important about opening day 2014? They won't be contenders next season. The important date is opening day 2015, which in itself is pretty optimistic. Unless of course Ryan decides to go out and add legitimate talent via FA this offseason but I think we both know how that will turn out.

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