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Thread: Gardy Needs a Refresher Course in Lineup Construction

  1. #41
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I know everyone is wondering: What would Riverbrian do?

    OK

    Lineup #1

    Florimon SS
    Mauer C
    Hammer LF
    Morneau 1B
    Doumit DH
    Arcia RF
    Plouffe 3B
    Hicks CF
    Dozier 2B

    Lineup #2

    Carroll 2B
    Mauer C
    Hammer DH
    Morneau 1B
    Arcia LF
    Plouffe 3B
    Parm RF
    Hicks CF
    Escobar SS

    Lineup #3

    Florimon SS
    Mauer DH
    Hammer LF
    Arcia RF
    Doumit C
    Plouffe 3B
    Parm 1B
    Hicks CF
    Dozier 2B

    Lineup #4

    Florimon SS
    Mauer C
    Morneau 1B
    Doumit DH
    Arcia LF
    Plouffe 3B
    Parm RF
    Dozier 2B
    Escobar CF

    Lineup #5

    Carroll 3B
    Mauer DH
    Hammer LF
    Morneau 1B
    Doumit C
    Parmelee RF
    Hicks CF
    Dozier 2B
    Escobar SS
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  2. #42
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I know everyone is wondering: What would Riverbrian do?
    Now we can all rest with ease! And I like lineup 2 personally.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Your scenario misses a seemingly important point...if Dozier was hitting in the bottom of the lineup, with Mauer hitting second, the scenario would have worked the same way. Dozier would have come up earlier in the inning, and assuming he did the exact same thing...flared one to right...the out he recorded comes earlier in the inning and the Twins don't get to bases loaded with 2 out. Mauer doesn't hit that way either, because the inning is over before you get to the 2nd spot in the lineup.
    Please, just take it at surface level as a simple example.

    If you want to start playing with revisionist history, you can start making 'seemingly important points' about how any given situation could have possibly been different... to the point where you can make absolutely no insights at all.

    The outcome and specifics aren't as important as the fact that Mauer batting 3rd led to 1 less at bat for him. With that likely to happen about once every 9 games, I'd call that a bad thing given our other options to bat 2nd.

  4. #44
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    Please, just take it at surface level as a simple example.

    If you want to start playing with revisionist history, you can start making 'seemingly important points' about how any given situation could have possibly been different... to the point where you can make absolutely no insights at all.

    The outcome and specifics aren't as important as the fact that Mauer batting 3rd led to 1 less at bat for him. With that likely to happen about once every 9 games, I'd call that a bad thing given our other options to bat 2nd.
    Odd. Your original post, to which I replied, was based on this: "This exact situation was manifested last night."

    It seems "specifics" are important, except when they interfere with your point, in which case they aren't.

    All nine hitters are going to hit each time through the lineup, no matter which order you put them in.

    For the record, I'd rather Mauer hit 2nd. But it wouldn't have mattered in your example from your previous post.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Triple-A Danchat's Avatar
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    Lineup #1

    Florimon SS
    Mauer C
    Hammer LF
    Morneau 1B
    Doumit DH
    Arcia RF
    Plouffe 3B
    Hicks CF
    Dozier 2B
    Y'know, what I don't understand is why Pedro Florimon is batting #9 and he's a .255 hitter with good speed. That's a better option than Dozier (.220) and Escobar (.225) and even Carroll (.230) at this point! He should bat #1!

  6. #46
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Odd. Your original post, to which I replied, was based on this: "This exact situation was manifested last night."

    It seems "specifics" are important, except when they interfere with your point, in which case they aren't.

    All nine hitters are going to hit each time through the lineup, no matter which order you put them in.

    For the record, I'd rather Mauer hit 2nd. But it wouldn't have mattered in your example from your previous post.
    Thanks for the condescending reply. The actual original article from the thread focused on more plate appearances for the #2 hitter, but you can insinuate that I am incapable of understanding your post or prefer to disregard anything counter to a point I make all that you want.

    If your viewpoint is that Mauer wouldn't have batted anyway because Dozier would have gotten out earlier either way, we can start speculating on how history could have been rewritten all over the place. Maybe a different pitcher would have come in for a matchup? Maybe the approach would have been different? Maybe Florimon would have tried to sac bunt? Doumit wouldn't have batted to lead off the inning, nor have struck out, so maybe there wouldn't have been 2 outs? Maybe something would have happened differently earlier in the game that would have changed who was up to bat?

    You can't just move an outcome from one spot to another without opening the door to how everything else would have played out differently. Simply based on what happened at the very end and not trying to predict how things would have been different otherwise from the infinite number of variations and possibilities, Mauer would have batted if he was #2.

    Cheers.

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