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Thread: Ryan's pre season statements.

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    Ryan's pre season statements.

    I said this at the time, but I'd like to expand on it now that we are 1/4 of the way through the season.

    Coming into the year, Terry went out of his way, time after time, to express that this was not a rebuilding year, and that he was putting out a team that would compete for the division.

    Now, I think most of us here understood that he couldnt possibly believe that, some even said something to the effect of "what is he supposed to say..."

    It is going to backfire on him.

    The causal fan is going to remember all of those statements, and want heads to roll when we lose 90+ games for a 3rd straight season with what the GM kept telling them was a competitive roster, not a rebuilding project.

    I think honesty would have been the far better strategy. Sure it may have hurt ticket sales in the short term, but I think it is going to backfire and cost even more ticket sales in the long term, and also bring a lot of heat on either him or Gardy to lose his job.
    I think this fan base proved in the early 2000's that they are willing to embrace a rebuild if it is done honestly, and if they see legit upside coming through the system.

    Perhaps even he knows this, and has done it intentionally, so that it will be easier to justify firing Gardy at the end of the year?
    I doubt that, but who knows. I think most causal fans like Gardy, but now Ryan can say, "I put together a playoff caliber roster but the results werent there so we decided to make a change." Something along those lines.

    Am I onto something here, or just on something?

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    They should have fire saled this mess last season. Now they have zero assets to move on the major league roster. Another in a line of expected epic fails for the worst front office in the game.

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    He also promised to do whatever he could to greatly improve this year's rotation...and seemed eager to tell anyone with a microphone how he did just that. Happy about all the quality depth he had acquired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    He also promised to do whatever he could to greatly improve this year's rotation...and seemed eager to tell anyone with a microphone how he did just that. Happy about all the quality depth he had acquired.
    Well to be fair, he has managed to assemble incredible depth at the #6/#7 starter type.

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    I think they expected a lot better offense from Doumit, Dozier and Parmalee, and a little bit more out of Morneau, Willingham, and Plouffe. Doumit Dozier and Parmalee with 100 points more on their OPS, Morneau and Willingham about 50 points more, Plouffe about 25 points more and you would have the offense they envisioned.

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    Incredible mismanagement of the customers.

    The Twins could have gone with a theme of, "Pick Your Guy". They could have highlighted Dozier, Parmelee, Plouffe, Hicks, Arcia, etc. They could have sent a message saying, 'Be here while your guy makes his case to ride to The Playoffs with the hotshots we have coming.' Um, well, something like that.

    Acknowledging it is a rebuilding year is not so bad.
    Being an MLB GM and thinking this starting rotation was going to be good? That is bad.

    So the question is, is he a liar or is he that out of touch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    I think they expected a lot better offense from Doumit, Dozier and Parmalee, and a little bit more out of Morneau, Willingham, and Plouffe. Doumit Dozier and Parmalee with 100 points more on their OPS, Morneau and Willingham about 50 points more, Plouffe about 25 points more and you would have the offense they envisioned.
    I'm not sure how much that changes the outcome of this season. With our pitching staff, even a massively improved offense wouldn't be enough to compete for the division.

    And even so, that is still on them for being so inept at evaluating their own players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    The causal fan is going to remember all of those statements, and want heads to roll when we lose 90+ games for a 3rd straight season with what the GM kept telling them was a competitive roster, not a rebuilding project.
    ?
    Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. Brooks View Post
    well to be fair, he has managed to assemble incredible depth at the #6/#7 starter type.
    lol!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    Really?
    Yes. Just because they are casual fans does not mean they are brain dead zombies that can't remember the GM saying over and over again how competitive this team was going to be.
    It's not like he said it once in some off the wall publication.
    Anyone who picked up a sports section of a local paper from about mid January through April 1st would have seen these quotes.
    Equating casual fan to moron is a bit arrogant IMO.

    Even if they don't remember specifically when and how Ryan said it, it will have been imbedded into their thinking.
    I can't tell you how many conversations I had with casual fans coming into this season who were very optimistic about the team.
    When I'd ask them why they would say something like:
    "I like the changes they have made with the pitching staff."
    or, "Not sure, I've just heard that the roster has improved."
    Etc., etc.
    Last edited by Mr. Brooks; 05-25-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Well, we were excited that the Twins may be a .500 team. But that has been shattered.

    If you were truly contending, you would add those one or two special pieces. The Twins additions this year weren't special pieces, they were pieces to fill holes between rebuilding and putting a team on the field.

    Would we be better served if all those empty spots had been filled with A and AA guys, getting a shot to perform like their current major league counterparts? Perhaps.

    If there is soemthing that I always disliked about the Twins management, they always looked at fielding a team that would compete, not just flat out win. They look at staying strong in a division. Yet, the division si the strongest it has ever been, with Kansas City at least playing like a team that CAN compete, and the White Sox, though dismal at times, can still play head-to-head with the Twins. The Twins CAN'T play head-to-head, right now, with anyone.

    The starting staff is in total shambles. The bullpen is flamning out. There's a total weakness in Hicks who makes Drew Butera or the pitcher in the line-up look like a batting order plus. We have Dozier, Parmelee, Willingham, Doumit slumping bigtime. We have Carroll shining, with Mauer and Morneau. Plouffe is brilliant when compared to so many others. We can't ask for anything more from Escobar or Florimon. Our bench is Colla and Ram. But there is little in the minors that can outplay the current roster in today's game, which is sad.
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    I'm not sure how much that changes the outcome of this season. With our pitching staff, even a massively improved offense wouldn't be enough to compete for the division.

    And even so, that is still on them for being so inept at evaluating their own players.
    Statistically check out where some of the players are at versus their norm or league average for their position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Yes. Just because they are casual fans does not mean they are brain dead zombies that can't remember the GM saying over and over again how competitive this team was going to be.
    It's not like he said it once in some off the wall publication.
    Anyone who picked up a sports section of a local paper from about mid January through April 1st would have seen these quotes.
    Equating casual fan to moron is a bit arrogant IMO.

    Even if they don't remember specifically when and how Ryan said it, it will have been imbedded into their thinking.
    I can't tell you how many conversations I had with casual fans coming into this season who were very optimistic about the team.
    When I'd ask them why they would say something like:
    "I like the changes they have made with the pitching staff."
    or, "Not sure, I've just heard that the roster has improved."
    Etc., etc.
    I think we're using a different definition of casual fan. When I think casual fan, I think someone (usually a family) who doesn't really follow the Twins but who likes to go out a couple of times a year and spend an afternoon or night at the ballpark, usually as a family activity. They don't read the sports pages looking for insights on the teams future competitiveness, nor do they really care what the won-loss record is. And, while a win is always more fun than a loss, they are probably more concerned about food options than about the quality of the rotation. And just so there is no misunderstanding, I think there is nothing wrong with that and with the club making efforts to increase the quality of their game-day experience. They also are welcome at the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Statistically check out where some of the players are at versus their norm or league average for their position.
    I'm not sure what that has to do with evaluating them coming into the season.
    For example, of course Morneau is going to be below his career norm, he isnt the same player he was before the concussion in Toronto, and his career norm is weighted pretty heavily by his pre concussion numbers.

    Example 2: Josh Willingham is only 43 pts below his career OPS. Given his age (34) and the fact that he is coming off a career year, I'd say that is right around where he should have been expected to be.

    Expecting guys like Morneau (injury) and Willingham (age) to perform at their career norm is extremely inept, and is kind of my point here. That likely wasnt going to happen. It is the FO's job to take that into consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbknudson View Post
    I think we're using a different definition of casual fan. When I think casual fan, I think someone (usually a family) who doesn't really follow the Twins but who likes to go out a couple of times a year and spend an afternoon or night at the ballpark, usually as a family activity. They don't read the sports pages looking for insights on the teams future competitiveness, nor do they really care what the won-loss record is. And, while a win is always more fun than a loss, they are probably more concerned about food options than about the quality of the rotation. And just so there is no misunderstanding, I think there is nothing wrong with that and with the club making efforts to increase the quality of their game-day experience. They also are welcome at the table.
    The declining attendance since they began being terrible disagrees with this statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgoat_MN View Post
    Incredible mismanagement of the customers.

    The Twins could have gone with a theme of, "Pick Your Guy". They could have highlighted Dozier, Parmelee, Plouffe, Hicks, Arcia, etc. They could have sent a message saying, 'Be here while your guy makes his case to ride to The Playoffs with the hotshots we have coming.' Um, well, something like that.

    Acknowledging it is a rebuilding year is not so bad.
    Being an MLB GM and thinking this starting rotation was going to be good? That is bad.

    So the question is, is he a liar or is he that out of touch?
    Or has the game just past him by?

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    Mr. Brooks I was having a very similar thought yesterday. Now that the chickens of the off season are coming home to roost what possible spin can they put on it that doesn't look REALLY bad for the whole front office. It is as you said really only 1 of 2 options, 1) They bold face lied when they said they would compete this season. 2) They're freaking idiots. I think it's number 1. Terry Ryan is concerned with only 1 thing constructing a cheap roster. He's perfectly content to ride the ups and downs that come with developing young talent and depending on that to stay competitive. I would go so far as to say he has contempt for the modern day big money ball players with their guaranteed contracts and primadonna attitudes. The bi-lateral leg weakness thing probably pushed him over the edge.

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    Ryan provided a game changing theory to the game of baseball. He refused to trade prospects for vets and he demanded a high price in exchange for his vets. At the time teams were willing to make these moves because while clubs valued their very top young guys, any prospect that wasn't deemed elite was expendable and Ryan took advantage of other teams' "Win Now" mentality. This practice is widely adopted now which means he has lost his advantage. I don't know that Ryan has any other cards to play. He's too conservative and his hoarding of cheap young players seems to be the only revolutionary move that fits into his MO. The gig is up.

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    Rangers claimed OF Joe Benson off waivers from the Twins

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