Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 81 to 96 of 96

Thread: Walters

  1. #81
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,607
    Like
    3,679
    Liked 3,167 Times in 1,356 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Gibson needs to be more consistent, like Sam Deduno, the model of a consistent pitcher.
    If consistency is the goal, why did they send Worley down? He was nothing if not consistent.

  2. #82
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
    Posts
    3,645
    Like
    932
    Liked 1,285 Times in 688 Posts
    If anyone truly believes Gibson not being up here right now isn't about service time, well I have some Twins-Astros tix in section 334, row 16 for a cool $100 a pair.

    On so many levels it's ludicrous he's not part of this rotation right now, shame on Ryan.

  3. #83
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,845
    Like
    179
    Liked 665 Times in 376 Posts
    Part of me thinks that Gibson's performance last night may have actually disappointed the Twins to some degree. Now they really have to turn up the rhetoric to guard themselves from the money/service time issue.

    I realize how bitter and pessimistic that seems, but damn, I kinda think Ryan was secretly rooting for a 5 inning, 3 run performance. Just to fit the narrative better for a couple more weeks.

  4. #84
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,419
    Like
    66
    Liked 42 Times in 29 Posts
    OK this is getting a bit absurd. Kyle Gibson might have better stuff than Walters. He might be a bigger part of the future. He might be Superman in disguise but there were legitimate reasons to call up Walters instead.

    This was pointed out in another thread by Seth Stohs:

    Gibson's odd starts: 35.2IP, 4ER, 0.50ERA, 17H, 32K
    Gibson's even starts: 17IP, 17ER, 9.00ERA, 29H, 14K

    He was absolutely dominant in his odd starts but in his even starts he was dominated. The odd start Gibson screams, "promote me!!!" where as the even start Gibson screams, "I need help!!!". It is not unreasonable for the Twins to wait to see which Gibson is the real Gibson.

    On the other hand Walters had put together 6 straight starts with >6IP and a 2.06ERA. He had been pitching great.

  5. #85
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,747
    Like
    875
    Liked 853 Times in 549 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    OK this is getting a bit absurd. Kyle Gibson might have better stuff than Walters. He might be a bigger part of the future. He might be Superman in disguise but there were legitimate reasons to call up Walters instead.

    This was pointed out in another thread by Seth Stohs:

    Gibson's odd starts: 35.2IP, 4ER, 0.50ERA, 17H, 32K
    Gibson's even starts: 17IP, 17ER, 9.00ERA, 29H, 14K

    He was absolutely dominant in his odd starts but in his even starts he was dominated. The odd start Gibson screams, "promote me!!!" where as the even start Gibson screams, "I need help!!!". It is not unreasonable for the Twins to wait to see which Gibson is the real Gibson.

    On the other hand Walters had put together 6 straight starts with >6IP and a 2.06ERA. He had been pitching great.
    I have been on board with Big Train Walters and have been his earliest and biggest advocate for call-up.

    And yet with the odd/even situation, Gibson still stands out in the entire I-League, he has a 2.72 FIP (4th), a 1.07 WHIP (4th), 0.30 HR/9 (5th) 22.5 % K% (9th), OBA of .219 (10th). He's not been prone to wildness, he has a very respectable BB rate of 2.52, coupled with a K/BB rate that is virtually Top Ten at 3.12 (w/in .03 of #10), he hasn't hit a batter and has 1 WP in 60.2 IP.

    These are strong pitching numbers and would lead one to submit that Gibson has also pitched great- No, check that, these are Freaking. Great. Numbers., and this is with half his games supposedly in the "I need help!" range??? Up until the game last night, his BABIP was around .330. While some of his alleged struggles can be attributed to rust and restoring the muscle memory necessary in relearning how to pitch, I have to attribute at least some of his odd/even slash differential to luck and playing in minor league parks with a minor league defense, that includes Jeff Clement, Chris Colabello, Oswaldo Arcia and some of the other suspect journeyman. I'd also like to see who the catcher was for the majority of his "bad" outings.
    Last edited by jokin; 05-26-2013 at 11:31 AM.

  6. #86
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,492
    Like
    154
    Liked 142 Times in 74 Posts
    Perhaps if people feel so strongly about PJ, it should have been PJ and Gibson, with Deduno not coming up?
    Either way, Gibson should have been 1 of the 2 called up.
    He's going to be up in 2 weeks anyways, are they really telling us that he can learn that much over the next 2 weeks at AAA?

  7. #87
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,845
    Like
    179
    Liked 665 Times in 376 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    On the other hand Walters had put together 6 straight starts with >6IP and a 2.06ERA. He had been pitching great.
    So call up all three (Walters, Deduno, and Gibson) None of this is a slight on Walters, it's that Gibson's innings limit, coupled with his talent, coupled with most of his recent performances, coupled with the putrid major league pitching are all strong reasons to promote him.

    The "consistency" nonsense is just an excuse for Super 2. Nothing more.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,419
    Like
    66
    Liked 42 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I have been on board with Big Train Walters and have been his biggest advocate for call-up.

    And yet with the odd/even situation, Gibson still stands out in the entire I-League, he has a 2.72 FIP (4th), a 1.07 WHIP (4th), 0.30 HR/9 (5th) 22.5 % K% (9th), OBA of .219 (10th). He's not been prone to wildness, he has a very respectable BB rate of 2.52, coupled with a K/BB rate that is virtually Top Ten at 3.12 (w/in .03 of #10), he hasn't hit a batter and has 1 WP in 60.2 IP.

    These are strong pitching numbers and would lead one to submit that Gibson has also pitched great- No, check that, these are Freaking. Great. Numbers., and this is with half his games supposedly in the "I need help!" range??? Up until the game last night, his BABIP was around .330. While some of his alleged struggles can be attributed to rust and restoring the muscle memory necessary in relearning how to pitch, I have to attribute at least some of his odd/even slash differential to luck and playing in minor league parks with a minor league defense, that includes Jeff Clement, Chris Colabello, Oswaldo Arcia and some of the other suspect journeyman. I'd also like to see who the catcher was for the majority of his "bad" outings.
    Everybody agrees that Gibson has put up some great starts. He has also put up some real clunkers. It is literally every other (up until last night at least). I certainly would have been OK with Gibson getting the call rather than Walters.

    My point is that this isn't clear cut. People have been hammering the Twins for their "consistency" comment when that is a legitimate position to take.

  9. #89
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,747
    Like
    875
    Liked 853 Times in 549 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    Everybody agrees that Gibson has put up some great starts. He has also put up some real clunkers. It is literally every other (up until last night at least). I certainly would have been OK with Gibson getting the call rather than Walters.

    My point is that this isn't clear cut. People have been hammering the Twins for their "consistency" comment when that is a legitimate position to take.
    And yet, the entire major league Twins rotation provides overwhelming clear-cut counter-evidence about how important "consistency" actually is valued, which belies the entire whiff of "legitimacy" of the FO in holding said position on Gibson.

  10. #90
    Banned Triple-A
    Posts
    253
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Oh my god you people are beating this to death. We all want to see Gibson and he'll be up soon. He hasn't been that consistent. There's no conspiracy here about super 2 status. Now that he's had 3 out of his last 4 starts look great he'll be up as soon as Pelfrey or Deduno has another clunker. Gardy's had with the most of these guys already. Correia isn't safe either if he can't keep the ball down in his next couple starts.

  11. #91
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,747
    Like
    875
    Liked 853 Times in 549 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post
    Oh my god you people are beating this to death. We all want to see Gibson and he'll be up soon. He hasn't been that consistent. There's no conspiracy here about super 2 status. Now that he's had 3 out of his last 4 starts look great he'll be up as soon as Pelfrey or Deduno has another clunker. Gardy's had with the most of these guys already. Correia isn't safe either if he can't keep the ball down in his next couple starts.
    And yet you take up the very same, cracked, discredited cudgel that the Twins have used?---which has been shown to be the exact excuse they completely ignore with their entire starting pitching staff or their rookie CF?

  12. #92
    Banned Triple-A
    Posts
    253
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Timing is everything and effect of confidence achieved from immediate success is immeasurable. The Twins and anyone who wants the Twins to win wants Gibson to come up to the majors only when he's ready to be what a young Scott Erickson was to the Twins rather than him come up early and look like a young Scott Baker. Just because they blew it with Hicks doesn't mean they should automatically make that exact same mistake immediately with Gibby. 2 pennies or whatever

  13. #93
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Gibson is now nearly the 1/2 mark of a likely innings limit around 140. This is what I was afraid of in spring and was laughed at for caring about the guy pitching for the Twins in August and September. Right now would he even get through the second half of July on this innings limit? Gibson should never have been throwing more than 6ish innings per game in Rochester and should have been starting at 3 or 4 only.

  14. #94
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
    Posts
    1,596
    Like
    19
    Liked 77 Times in 44 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post
    Timing is everything and effect of confidence achieved from immediate success is immeasurable. The Twins and anyone who wants the Twins to win wants Gibson to come up to the majors only when he's ready to be what a young Scott Erickson was to the Twins rather than him come up early and look like a young Scott Baker. Just because they blew it with Hicks doesn't mean they should automatically make that exact same mistake immediately with Gibby. 2 pennies or whatever
    Sorry to everyone for continuing to beat this down. What exactly will more AAA starts teach Gibson at this point? He would have been up with the Twins 2 years ago had he not gotten injured, and the idea was that the Twins needed to be sure he was physically ready. I'm pretty sure he's shown that he is. I was cautious at first too, but he was having command issue in his poor starts. Its been clear for over a week now he should be in the rotation.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  15. #95
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
    Posts
    1,683
    Twitter
    @nnelson9
    Like
    6
    Liked 86 Times in 31 Posts
    Blog Entries
    323
    I understand that Gibson has had a pattern of alternating good/bad starts (until yesterday). Could someone explain to me why it matters so much? He can work on becoming more consistent in the majors just as well as he can in the minors.

    As it is, his bad outings have been no worse than the duds the Twins are consistently getting, and his good outings have been truly spectacular. Makes no sense to waste those in the minors for a guy on an innings limit when you have the worst rotation in ball.

  16. #96
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,492
    Like
    154
    Liked 142 Times in 74 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I understand that Gibson has had a pattern of alternating good/bad starts (until yesterday). Could someone explain to me why it matters so much? He can work on becoming more consistent in the majors just as well as he can in the minors.

    As it is, his bad outings have been no worse than the duds the Twins are consistently getting, and his good outings have been truly spectacular. Makes no sense to waste those in the minors for a guy on an innings limit when you have the worst rotation in ball.
    Amen.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.