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Thread: The Twins Way

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Should probably bench the Hammer in favor of someone who can cheat in a few steps. Benson maybe

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    If you're going to have a heavy contact staff - wouldn't the ability to turn extra outs in the field be a priority? To me, if you're going to be cheap in the pitching in favor of contact/no walk guys - you should be prioritizing a defense that can really help them.

    We have just about the exact opposite. We have the same approach to defense - minimalist - just don't make obvious mistakes (walks, errors) and we can tolerate that you don't do other things well. (Strikeouts, range)

    To me that combination is ass backwards.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    If you're going to have a heavy contact staff - wouldn't the ability to turn extra outs in the field be a priority? To me, if you're going to be cheap in the pitching in favor of contact/no walk guys - you should be prioritizing a defense that can really help them.

    We have just about the exact opposite. We have the same approach to defense - minimalist - just don't make obvious mistakes (walks, errors) and we can tolerate that you don't do other things well. (Strikeouts, range)

    To me that combination is ass backwards.
    You know, what I used to say (and got slammed for) is that the Twins prefer pitchers like we have cause they are cheaper...and as an added bonus, having those type of pitchers require defense-first type players...which are also cheaper.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    You know, what I used to say (and got slammed for) is that the Twins prefer pitchers like we have cause they are cheaper...and as an added bonus, having those type of pitchers require defense-first type players...which are also cheaper.
    Funny how scarce the "slammers" are around these parts lately?

  5. #25
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    There is no Twins Way, other than never firing anyone (unless they are black). There was Tom Kelly's way, and that left with him.

  6. #26
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobs View Post
    There is no Twins Way, other than never firing anyone (unless they are black). There was Tom Kelly's way, and that left with him.
    It's not quite the same, but I say it lives on in a bastardized form. But alive nonetheless.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Funny how scarce the "slammers" are around these parts lately?

    In fairness, it wasn't here that I said that...well, until now :-)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    It's not quite the same, but I say it lives on in a bastardized form. But alive nonetheless.
    True dat. Remember, it was during Spring Training that Andy was allowed to revise and amend his remarks and (alleged) theory on "Pitch to Contact"....that somehow the media and public had misinterpreted what he meant....only now, unfortunately for Andy, the "bastard child" has come to full fruition.
    Last edited by jokin; 05-23-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #29
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    The contact, no walk pitchers are fine if they can pitch like Lackey did the other night against the Twins. Doesn't matter if they are strikeout pitchers or not, the Twins need no fat pitchtossers.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spideyo View Post
    Interestingly enough, the Twins actually lead the league in OF assists.

    In some ways, it's almost like the team took to heart all the criticism of having a guy like Punto around (and to a lesser extent the CONSTANT bitching last year about how Revere will never be more than a singles hitter and his range can't possibly make up for that) and decided that instead of slick-fielding "put me anywhere and I'll make highlight reel defensive plays" guys, they are going with guys who can slug and trying to find a spot for them where they won't screw up too many plays.

    Basically, it seems like it used to be a philosophy of counting on the defense to keep the score low, scrape together a few walks/bunts/singles, and expect one of our few mashers to knock in just enough to win.

    Now it seems like its a lot more offense first, score a lot of runs and then count on the pitcher to limit the exposure of the defense.


    This shift really started with the move to Target Field, when they got rid of Carlos Gomez (which ultimately meant a whole lot more playing time in LF for Delmon Young), and signed Thome. Now, I like Thome, but when we already had Kubel, Mauer, and Morneau, it never really made sense to grab another left-handed power bat, particularly one who couldn't play ANY defense. Essentially what they lost was a spot for a guy like Brian Buscher, who wasn't the greatest bat off the bench, could at least cover 1B/3B when needed.


    It seemed like a very clear indication that they were saying "ok, we don't want to be a small ball team anymore, let's hit some dingers in our fancy new stadium"


    The main problem I see with this "offense first" mentality, is that players are far more likely to go through slumps as batters than as fielders. Even the best hitters will go through stretches where they just can't seem to find their swing. Not very often do you see normally fantastic fielders suddenly start missing routine plays.

    The other big problem is that without really good defense, it puts ENORMOUS pressure on the pitcher, and if you don't have top-flight pitching, you are screwed. Detroit has sacrificed defense for power, but they can get away with it because they have Verlander and his pals. We don't.
    I disagree. Buscher had zero value. Thome was the best hitter on the team in 2010. The problem is when you sacrifice defense for sluggers that don't slug like Delmon, Doumit, and Plouffe.

  11. #31
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    The contact, no walk pitchers are fine if they can pitch like Lackey did the other night against the Twins. Doesn't matter if they are strikeout pitchers or not, the Twins need no fat pitchtossers.
    Well, that's the problem. It can certainly work - it's just dramatically less reliable. Odds catch up in a long season, so citing specific successes isn't a very good argument.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I disagree. Buscher had zero value. Thome was the best hitter on the team in 2010. The problem is when you sacrifice defense for sluggers that don't slug like Delmon, Doumit, and Plouffe.
    Delmon had a very good 2010...

  13. #33
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    "The Twins Way", means "the cheap way". Strikeout pitchers are like HR hitters, there is a big salary premium for these guys. Using "TTW" as a guide, means for the Twins to have K-pitchers or HR hitters these guys must have very few years of ML experience. They have been big believers of minor league experience--more is better.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I disagree. Buscher had zero value. Thome was the best hitter on the team in 2010. The problem is when you sacrifice defense for sluggers that don't slug like Delmon, Doumit, and Plouffe.
    Thome was strictly a DH, so his defensive limitations weren't much of an issue.

  15. #35
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    The difference between the best corner OF defenders and the worst just isn't worth worrying about.

    As for playing their OFers deep, the Twins have done that throughout the Gardenhire era, it wouldn't matter who they had in the corners, they'd be playing deep. They had Revere play a deep RF.

    The Twins defense hasn't been real good this year, but that's primarily because of the IF, not the OF. And they're losing because of pitching 1st, offense second, and defense a distant third.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Thome was strictly a DH, so his defensive limitations weren't much of an issue.

    That's the point. It really doesn't matter if you can field a lick if you're going to OPS 1.000 but when you're Delmon Young or Brian Buscher you're not long for an organization.

  17. #37
    The 90 plus losses have come around as Gardy has started to not care about defense. He got away with Delmon/Cuddy for awhile but its finally caught up with em.
    They preach defense but dont expound on it at all.
    One of many reasons that Im fed up with him.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Well, that's the problem. It can certainly work - it's just dramatically less reliable. Odds catch up in a long season, so citing specific successes isn't a very good argument.
    odds catch up on any pitcher that does not throw the ball well

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I disagree. Buscher had zero value. Thome was the best hitter on the team in 2010. The problem is when you sacrifice defense for sluggers that don't slug like Delmon, Doumit, and Plouffe.
    I'm not saying we should have kept Buscher over Thome. It just didn't make sense to me at the time to take away a bench spot from any possible defensive person.

    Obviously in 2010, the choice to go Offense first worked well. In 2011 and 2012, it did not. My whole point is that it appears that they have made that conscious choice, and as we've seen when the sluggers don't slug and you don't have top-level pitchers, it doesn't work well.

    Now, if all our sluggers were hitting at the top of their game, and we had gotten Grienke and Peavy, no one would give a damn about our defense

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