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Thread: Changes coming for the Twins?

  1. #41
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    This thread has morphed into an examination of the Twins management staff. I have mixed feelings about both. 1) Gardenhire has won when he had the talent and a couple times when he didn't have as much talent as the competition. However, most managers have a "shelf life" and he probably has passed his expiration date. A different style and voice might be needed for the next generation of players. Gardenhire can manage another team if he doesn't get his contract extended or is fired. I'd like to see what Gardy can do with a strong rotation, but it doesn't look like he'll have a chance. 2) Ryan comes from the scouting side of baseball front offices. He knows talent and has demonstrated he can build a farm system. My questions about Ryan center on the change for the Twins from small market to medium market. Ryan has handled the checkbook as if Calvin Griffith was signing the checks, seemingly always opting for bargain basement players, sometimes hitting, but often missing. When pursuing free agents, he has been unwilling to pay the price for good talent and may have not adjusted to the "strikeouts good" pitching philosophythat favors hard throwers. I submit that Ryan has again built a good future for the Twins, but 2013 is a lost cause. Middle market teams should do better in down years.

  2. #42
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    This thread could be about Tom Kelly circa 1999 or 2000. When the talent gelled in 2001, suddenly knew how manage again. The current streak is frustrating, but a mid-season change isn't happening. If we win 63 games again, Gardy will be gone. If we win 78, he won't. Let it play out.

  3. #43
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    This thread could be about Tom Kelly circa 1999 or 2000. When the talent gelled in 2001, suddenly knew how manage again. The current streak is frustrating, but a mid-season change isn't happening. If we win 63 games again, Gardy will be gone. If we win 78, he won't. Let it play out.
    Wasn't Kelly gone after 2001?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Wasn't Kelly gone after 2001?
    Yes, but 2001 was his last year and the first year that the new group clicked. He left on his own.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Double-A Cap'n Piranha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    may have not adjusted to the "strikeouts good" pitching philosophythat favors hard throwers.
    I think TR clearly understands the importance of strikeouts, as evidenced by his moves in the minors in the past year. Here is a list of pitchers TR has acquired in his current stint that are currently averaging close to, or greater than, a k/IP;

    Melotakis, Berrios, Muren, Baxendale, Jones, May, Meyer, Thompson, Perdomo, O'Connor, Deduno, Wood, Burton.

    And that's not counting guys who put up the same type of averages last year, but haven't started playing yet;

    Mata, Merck, Chargois, Powell, Ferreira, Bard.

    By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Let's recap. In the last five years, they've changed GMs twice, replaced the guy who runs the draft, the guy who runs player development, every coach and manager in the minors, the minor league coordinator, the minor league hitting and pitching instructors, and five major league coaches. From the outside, this does not appear to be a change-averse organization.

    They have said they don't make moves just to make moves, and that they value continuity. But you don't fail repeatedly and keep your job.

    Changes are already happening. Three roster moves this week. And more to come. Patience.
    great post. I stand somewhat corrected. They really didn't change GMs twice, though. Ryan went on vacation, and stayed on as a consultant so he didn't have to take care of a bunch of things he didn't want to do, imo. When those were done, he decided to come back.

    But you are right, there have been a lot of changes. Now they need to aim higher, imo.
    Lighten up Francis....

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Piranha View Post
    I think TR clearly understands the importance of strikeouts, as evidenced by his moves in the minors in the past year. Here is a list of pitchers TR has acquired in his current stint that are currently averaging close to, or greater than, a k/IP;

    Melotakis, Berrios, Muren, Baxendale, Jones, May, Meyer, Thompson, Perdomo, O'Connor, Deduno, Wood, Burton.

    And that's not counting guys who put up the same type of averages last year, but haven't started playing yet;

    Mata, Merck, Chargois, Powell, Ferreira, Bard.

    By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.
    Ryan does NOT run the draft.
    Lighten up Francis....

  8. #48
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Ryan does NOT run the draft.
    No, but you would certainly think he has a large say in the vision and strategy of where they're trying to go -- which, without specific names, is kind of what we're talking about here if the goal is to target more strikeout-type guys.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Double-A Cap'n Piranha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Ryan does NOT run the draft.
    If you think he doesn't have HEAVY involvement, and ultimate say-so, you're crazy. Perhaps he's not finding these guys, but if he didn't want them in the system, odds are they wouldn't be.

  10. #50
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    Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #51
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......
    Haha... maybe you're getting draft and acquisitions mixed up?

    Bottom line is the Twins have certainly made changes throughout the organization recently, as was pointed out, and they have also made some clear changes to their draft approach.

    I think we'll care a lot more about who is responsible for that if the wave of upcoming prospects don't pan out and we're subjected to more 90+ loss seasons. In that case, the buck always stops at the top... TR.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."
    It surprises me that you have no clue what your readers are capable of.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......
    it's okay...Sano, Kepler, both are Smith's :-)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Piranha View Post
    If you think he doesn't have HEAVY involvement, and ultimate say-so, you're crazy. Perhaps he's not finding these guys, but if he didn't want them in the system, odds are they wouldn't be.
    Ryan himself said he's barely involved in the process as GM

    DL: What is your role in the draft?


    TR: Not too much. I watch and listen. I do go to see some [players]. I see some. Just enough to be dangerous. That dabbling in the scouting world is a dangerous situation, because you don’t have a very good cross-section of what’s out there. I can do the skills, and I can do the makeup, probably. It doesn’t take any genius to go out and run a stopwatch or look at a radar gun or mechanics, and evaluate the skills. If you’ve been around, you can do that. But where does he go country-wise? Is he up here, or is he down here? I don’t see enough to be able to slot him in very well. That’s when it’s dangerous. That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices. They are the ones that live and die with it 365 days out of the year. I’m only a dabbler and that’s not good. '

    right there he says: 'That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices.'

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/qa-te...neral-manager/
    Last edited by ThePuck; 05-22-2013 at 09:37 AM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Piranha View Post
    By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. Ithink TR gets it.
    Well why did it take him so long? We need to settle for the last GM that recognizes the value in a strikeout?

  16. #56
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    facts, Puck, have no bearing in this conversation......
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    facts, Puck, have no bearing in this conversation......
    Just THIS conversation? :-)

  18. #58
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices.'
    We're debating whether TR 'gets' the need for power arms or not. He's clearly saying that he doesn't make the actual choices during the draft because the scouts have more knowledge on that year's specific players.

    But whether it's Berrios, Melotakis, etc that are in the system or some other power arms... the specific players are kind of irrelevant. It's clear from the recent drafts that they've changed their strategy and we'd be remiss to think the GM isn't responsible for setting the strategy for the scouting/drafting team to execute. That strategy clearly reflects an effort to draft more power arms. So, yes, the facts have bearing (despite the sarcasm) and the point remains... TR gets it.

  19. #59
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    No, we were responding to the assertion that he is heavily involved in the actuall drafting of players.....no one was responding about whether or not TR gets it (ok, one post was). It's even quoted in post 54.
    Lighten up Francis....

  20. #60
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Piranha View Post
    By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Ryan does NOT run the draft.
    Lol... well, it kind of started with Cap'ns point about strategy and the type of guys we've drafted and evolved into who runs the drafts with your response... but I digress!

    So, yes -- TR doesn't run the draft or even really influence the selection decisions, but has to be largely responsible for (at least approving) the change in strategy to draft more power arms overall. See, we all win.

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