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Thread: Changes coming for the Twins?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."
    As for having it both ways...

    How about this: If Gardy can't take any of the blame for the last 2+ seasons, because he's been given so little talent, then he gets no credit for winning when we had more talent than any other team in our USUALLY (not always) very poor division...which was most of the seasons since he's been manager.

    On top of that, how is it that his coaches took the fall this offseason, but he doesn't? Were those coaches not working with the same talent?

    I'd also venture to say that season predictions by some took into account the manager we have.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 05-21-2013 at 07:53 AM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutterheart View Post
    I know that some really dislike Gardy here - i don't - but even the fiercest Gardy haters can't blame this season on him.

    Ryan left this team with bad starting pitching options and thin on CF'ers.

    If the team stinks, its on Ryan. Not Gardy. Any manager would find it hard to win with this Starting Pitching Staff.
    Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?
    Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

    Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

    As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    On top of that, how is it that his coaches took the fall this offseason, but he doesn't? Were those coaches not working with the same talent?
    His buddies did not take the blame (other than Liddle who said that we was going to retire.) It was all Stelly's and Jerry's fault...
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."
    Nice strawman.

    1. "We" didn't say this is a 70 win team. You might have.

    2. Opinions on Gardy haven't necessarily been formed based solely on 40 games in 2013.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    We've never had thread like this!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Nice strawman.

    1. "We" didn't say this is a 70 win team. You might have.

    2. Opinions on Gardy haven't necessarily been formed based solely on 40 games in 2013.
    Mine formed towards the end of 2007...

  7. #27
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    Hey, it's another fire Gardy thread!

  8. #28
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    John, love your work, but you are wrong on our thoughts on Gardy. These thoughts are based on a decade of post-season futility, the inability to grow young players, the fact they do NOT do the little things well, these thoughts are based on a lot more than a few games in 2013.

    His job is to coach, and help these guys do more things well than they did before they came up. Do you see that? I don't. I don't see a team that has done the little things well in years (and Seth and Howard have been typing that for at least 2 years). I don't see a manager that nurtures his young talent, and helps them grow. I don't see a guy that understand shifts. I don't see a guy that understands that the save is a stupid stat that influences his behavior in bad wasy. I don't see a guy that can change as the game around him changes at all.

    Oh, and it is not all his fault. The GM has decided that NOT spending money is the way to win, and saddled him with an awful pitching staff, among other issues.
    Lighten up Francis....

  9. #29
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    Definitely not Arcia. Parmelee and Hicks should be replaced by Colabello and Richardson. Dozier could be replaced James Beresford.
    Last edited by jun; 05-21-2013 at 08:41 AM.

  10. #30
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    As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?
    No. And that's why a lot of my baseball viewing no longer takes place on Fox Sports North. I've been a Twins fan since 1965 but I'll admit that my allegiance has ebbed at times (mostly due to events in my life, less due to the team). I can endure bad teams but I had problems with the "Back to the Future" approach of reinstating Terry Ryan as GM and was hoping the "interim" title was truly that. I don't know how much I can endure of the present culture of Twins management. The spring breezes have been blowing hard here. I wish they would blow through the Twins organization and do some spring cleaning (okay, I'll take fall cleaning -- its always breezy then, too).

  12. #32
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Hey, it's another fire Gardy thread!
    You're free not to participate, but thoughts about possible upcoming management changes seem to me appropriate in a thread about possible upcoming changes.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?
    Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

    Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

    As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.
    I was suspended for making this quote a headline to a thread.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?
    Not a chance. Who exactly is Dave St Peter the boss of?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?
    Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

    Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

    As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.
    Gardy ddeserves a lot of heat and he is not the best game manager. But he has shown when given the tools he can win.

    All I am saying is this is a poorly constructed team and blaming Gardy for the losses is putting blame in the wrong spot. Blame lies with ownership and their desire to cut costs in the third year of a taxpayer funded stadium.

    Gardy might be fired at the end of the year and maybe that will be the right decision. But If there is one thing we should learn from when the T-wolves fired Saunders is that manager changes can bring a lot of unexpected chaos.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    John, love your work, but you are wrong on our thoughts on Gardy. These thoughts are based on a decade of post-season futility, the inability to grow young players, the fact they do NOT do the little things well, these thoughts are based on a lot more than a few games in 2013.

    His job is to coach, and help these guys do more things well than they did before they came up. Do you see that? I don't. I don't see a team that has done the little things well in years (and Seth and Howard have been typing that for at least 2 years). I don't see a manager that nurtures his young talent, and helps them grow. I don't see a guy that understand shifts. I don't see a guy that understands that the save is a stupid stat that influences his behavior in bad wasy. I don't see a guy that can change as the game around him changes at all.

    Oh, and it is not all his fault. The GM has decided that NOT spending money is the way to win, and saddled him with an awful pitching staff, among other issues.
    Let's recap. In the last five years, they've changed GMs twice, replaced the guy who runs the draft, the guy who runs player development, every coach and manager in the minors, the minor league coordinator, the minor league hitting and pitching instructors, and five major league coaches. From the outside, this does not appear to be a change-averse organization.

    They have said they don't make moves just to make moves, and that they value continuity. But you don't fail repeatedly and keep your job.

    Changes are already happening. Three roster moves this week. And more to come. Patience.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  17. #37
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    We've never had thread like this!
    We should totally talk about what is actually happening: Pelfry sucks, Correia going back to what he actually is, Diamond regressing, bullpen coming back to the fold, the offense can't hit, many of the young players aren't playing, Mauer only has 13 RBIs, Willingham is doing his best Butera impression, Morneau is doing his best Mauer impression, and I could go on.

    But I'm sure no one would complain about those topics either. If anything, this is about the most positive thing people could talk about right now.

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    We should totally talk about what is actually happening: Pelfry sucks, Correia going back to what he actually is, Diamond regressing, bullpen coming back to the fold, the offense can't hit, many of the young players aren't playing, Mauer only has 13 RBIs, Willingham is doing his best Butera impression, Morneau is doing his best Mauer impression, and I could go on.

    But I'm sure no one would complain about those topics either. If anything, this is about the most positive thing people could talk about right now.
    Thank you. You've brightened my day!
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutterheart View Post

    Gardy might be fired at the end of the year and maybe that will be the right decision. But If there is one thing we should learn from when the T-wolves fired Saunders is that manager changes can bring a lot of unexpected chaos.
    Why would you compare baseball with basketball? Perhaps you could look at last year and notice the improvement by the Orioles, White Sox and A's who all had the same suspect talent but unexpectedly competed due to managerial changes.

    Still I've said it before, I don't want to see Gardy fired unless Ryan is canned first. Gardy's in game management has been poor and he keeps throwing the young guys under the bus for petty mistakes, but this is Ryan's mess and I don't want to see him try to lay the blame on someone else. The game has passed him by and he does not seem comfortable with the current economic boon and contract trends that the other clubs are utilizing to stay competitive.

  20. #40
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    But terrible moves like pinch running Dozier for Willingham in the eighth is a good reason to can Gardy now. The odds that the game will go extra innings and Willingham will bat again is higher than the odds that the difference between Dozier's speed and Willingham's speed will result in an immediate run. There are very few situations where Dozier could score when Willingham could not.

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