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Thread: First quarter over...on pace for 89 losses

  1. #1

    First quarter over...on pace for 89 losses

    Are you surprised by this or not?
    Ive thought they've played WAY over their head, but are just a game under my expectation of 90+ losses.
    Pitching wise, other than Kyle Gibson for Pedro Hernandez, what other moves are their to make?? Sam Deduno?? Cole DeVries?? PJ Walters?? Id be stunned to see Worley/Pelprey given up on.
    Chris Collabello absolutely deserves a shot, but what spot does he take to get ABs.
    Can they get back to .500 or is this season now over by Memorial Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post
    Are you surprised by this or not?
    Ive thought they've played WAY over their head, but are just a game under my expectation of 90+ losses.
    Pitching wise, other than Kyle Gibson for Pedro Hernandez, what other moves are their to make?? Sam Deduno?? Cole DeVries?? PJ Walters?? Id be stunned to see Worley/Pelprey given up on.
    Chris Collabello absolutely deserves a shot, but what spot does he take to get ABs.
    Can they get back to .500 or is this season now over by Memorial Day
    Call me an optimist if you must, but I give them to holding off on calling it a season 'til Flag Day (June 14).

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    I think it would be better if they lose a ton of games and get another top 5 pick. I mean they have no shot at the playoffs so it doesnt make sense to be a mediocre team that gets a bad pick. Most of the players on the team wont even be here in 2-3 years anyways, this season is pretty much worthless so why not get a great pick and a potential great player? Alot of really good teams now were near the bottom for several years and because of that they got great players and are now among the leagues best teams. SF, TB, BAL, PIT, WSH and TEX are all good examples. WSH had back to back 1st overall picks and got Harper and Strasburg, they also got Zimmerman in the top 5 a couple years earlier. They would not be the same team without those 3 players.
    Last edited by Brodin4Calder; 05-19-2013 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodin4Calder View Post
    I think it would be better if they lose a ton of games and get another top 5 pick. I mean they have no shot at the playoffs so it doesnt make sense to be a mediocre team that gets a bad pick. Most of the players on the team wont even be here in 2-3 years anyways, this season is pretty much worthless so why not get a great pick and a potential great player? Alot of really good teams now were near the bottom for several years and because of that they got great players and are now among the leagues best teams. SF, TB, BAL, WSH and TEX are all good examples. WSH had back to back 1st overall picks and got Harper and Strasburg, they also got Zimmerman in the top 5 a couple years earlier. They would not be the same team without those 3 players.
    Of course the Twins have been known to frequently draft the guys they know they can sign below slot over TBA. Buxton was a nice departure, let's see what happens in June.

    Saying that it's better to tank games, for the third year in a row is unacceptable. This is a team that built a new ballpark for the express purpose of gaining permanent financial wherewithal to afford never having to endure the long cold years of purgatory, like the 90s and the 70s and early 80s. Teams like Boston, who rebooted themselves after last year's rockbottom finish, or the Indians, who brought in a fresh voice and a proven winner coupled with a new-found financial commitment are who they should be emulating, on a smaller financial scale, of course. If not, then every veteran should have been moved off the team after 2011 for a real rebuild.

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    Drafting top 5 is a crapshoot. Many of those guys turn out to be mediocre or dont make it to the bigs. You never punt on a season. Ever. You always try to win games. We'll see how the astros strategy works out in five years...but if any of those top guys flame out, you lost 90 games for no reason and are back at square one.

    You especially don't punt if have a HOF in his prime (Plouffe...jk Doumit...ok Mauer).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Drafting top 5 is a crapshoot. Many of those guys turn out to be mediocre or dont make it to the bigs. You never punt on a season. Ever. You always try to win games. We'll see how the astros strategy works out in five years...but if any of those top guys flame out, you lost 90 games for no reason and are back at square one.

    You especially don't punt if have a HOF in his prime (Plouffe...jk Doumit...ok Mauer).
    TT and Jokin practically on the same page? What phase is the moon in again?
    Last edited by jokin; 05-19-2013 at 10:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Of course the Twins have been known to frequently draft the guys they know they can sign below slot over TBA. Buxton was a nice departure, let's see what happens in June.

    Saying that it's better to tank games, for the third year in a row is unacceptable. This is a team that built a new ballpark for the express purpose of gaining permanent financial wherewithal to afford never having to endure the long cold years of purgatory, like the 90s and the 70s and early 80s. Teams like Boston, who rebooted themselves after last year's rockbottom finish, or the Indians, who brought in a fresh voice and a proven winner coupled with a new-found financial commitment are who they should be emulating, on a smaller financial scale, of course. If not, then every veteran should have been moved off the team after 2011 for a real rebuild.
    The Twins cant spend 140+ MIL year on payroll like BOS, and they did get rid of most of the veterans last year and this offseason. Kubel, Cuddyer, Nathan, Revere and Span were all moved for the rebuild.

    This sink to the bottom was necessary to be successful in the future. Thats what almost every team has to go through to get back to the top. Like I said BAL, SF, WSH, TB, TEX and others all did the same thing. BAL got Wieters and Machado in their bad years, SF got Bumgarner and Posey in theirs, WSH got Harper and Strasburg and Zimmerman in theirs.... Yea it doesnt always work but for the Twins to be successful with a small payroll they have to emulate what those teams did. Now we have Buxton and a 4th pick from being bad, and Berrios from a compensatory pick we got when we let Cuddyer go and we traded for Meyer. The Fans will love watching all of these young guys trickle in and in a couple years they could be competing for the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Drafting top 5 is a crapshoot. Many of those guys turn out to be mediocre or dont make it to the bigs. You never punt on a season. Ever. You always try to win games. We'll see how the astros strategy works out in five years...but if any of those top guys flame out, you lost 90 games for no reason and are back at square one.

    You especially don't punt if have a HOF in his prime (Plouffe...jk Doumit...ok Mauer).
    Nobody said it was a garuntee, im just saying thats the Twins best shot at winning a WS. They need to get as much high end talent together at once and hope most of them reach their potential around the same time. It has failed but it has worked very well to like with SF, WSH, TB, TEX and now BAL is getting really good too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodin4Calder View Post
    The Twins cant spend 140+ MIL year on payroll like BOS, and they did get rid of most of the veterans last year and this offseason. Kubel, Cuddyer, Nathan, Revere and Span were all moved for the rebuild.

    This sink to the bottom was necessary to be successful in the future. Thats what almost every team has to go through to get back to the top. Like I said BAL, SF, WSH, TB, TEX and others all did the same thing. BAL got Wieters and Machado in their bad years, SF got Bumgarner and Posey in theirs, WSH got Harper and Strasburg and Zimmerman in theirs.... Yea it doesnt always work but for the Twins to be successful with a small payroll they have to emulate what those teams did. Now we have Buxton and a 4th pick from being bad, and Berrios from a compensatory pick we got when we let Cuddyer go and we traded for Meyer. The Fans will love watching all of these young guys trickle in and in a couple years they could be competing for the playoffs.
    Nobody said anything about a $140M payroll, in fact I explicitly said they would/should do it on the cheap compared to the Bosox. Oh, the Tribe did a major makeover and their payroll is $73M, lower than the Twins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodin4Calder View Post
    The Twins cant spend 140+ MIL year on payroll like BOS, and they did get rid of most of the veterans last year and this offseason. Kubel, Cuddyer, Nathan, Revere and Span were all moved for the rebuild.

    This sink to the bottom was necessary to be successful in the future. Thats what almost every team has to go through to get back to the top. Like I said BAL, SF, WSH, TB, TEX and others all did the same thing. BAL got Wieters and Machado in their bad years, SF got Bumgarner and Posey in theirs, WSH got Harper and Strasburg and Zimmerman in theirs.... Yea it doesnt always work but for the Twins to be successful with a small payroll they have to emulate what those teams did. Now we have Buxton and a 4th pick from being bad, and Berrios from a compensatory pick we got when we let Cuddyer go and we traded for Meyer. The Fans will love watching all of these young guys trickle in and in a couple years they could be competing for the playoffs.
    I documented in another thread the Giants personnel moves since 2006. They were continual players in the FA market, making some good and bad moves, but always having a Plan B, when A wasn't working out. They were, in fact, attempting to win it every year, not play for the top draft pick, that's what organizations with a winning emphasis and culture do.

    "Could" should not be an acceptable description of a team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Nobody said anything about a $140M payroll, in fact I explicitly said they would/should do it on the cheap compared to the Bosox. Oh, the Tribe did a major makeover and their payroll is $73M, lower than the Twins.
    The Tribe has young guys like Kipnis and Santana making barely any money playing like all stars, and guys like Reynolds and Masterson playing like MVPs on pretty small contracts. Thats the kind of baseball the Twins want to be playing, if we have a ton of young guys on small contracts playing like all stars we have a shot to win a WS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I documented in another thread the Giants personnel moves since 2006. They were continual players in the FA market, making some good and bad moves, but always having a Plan B, when A wasn't working out. They were, in fact, attempting to win it every year, not play for the top draft pick, that's what organizations with a winning emphasis and culture do.

    "Could" should not be an acceptable description of a team.
    You guys are trying to hard to sound right. SF would have had no shot at winning the WS without Posey and Bumgarnerm they got them because they had horrible seasons. Im not saying the Twins should purposley tank Im just saying it would make more sense to get a top pick. Most of the players on the team wont even be here in 2-3 years, this season is worthless. We need as many young guys on small contracts playing like all stars as we can get if we wanna win the WS one day. We have a great group of prospects that could make that happen and we still have the 4th pick this year. Why not get another top 5 pick that could be an ace or a great hitter? I know it doesnt always work out but its what we have to do.

    And once our prospects are up and we are contenders we will be looking to FA for veterans to give us depth. Theres alot of things a team must do to win a WS but the most important is to develop your best players through the draft.

  13. #13
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    I hate to say it, but I think things are going to look really bad about a month from now. The Twins are playing some of their worst ball of the season at the moment, and now must head to Atlanta and Detroit, the beginning of a stretch in which they play 15 of 20 on the road.

    On the bright side, I think they'll have a pretty decent second half and finish short of 90 losses. But I'm bracing for the worst in the short-term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodin4Calder View Post
    The Tribe has young guys like Kipnis and Santana making barely any money playing like all stars, and guys like Reynolds and Masterson playing like MVPs on pretty small contracts. Thats the kind of baseball the Twins want to be playing, if we have a ton of young guys on small contracts playing like all stars we have a shot to win a WS.
    The Tribe turned over a majority of their roster.
    And they, not surprisingly, also went out and acquired high-dollar free agents and a whole pack of mid-tier FAs and prospect and established player trades for a team that lost 94 games last year, exactly 2 less than the Twins. Reynolds is only playing slightly better than his career numbers and Masterson is pitching exactly as he pitched 2 years ago. There are 2 ways to reset, Boston and the Dodgers is one way, Cleveland is the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Drafting top 5 is a crapshoot. Many of those guys turn out to be mediocre or dont make it to the bigs. You never punt on a season. Ever. You always try to win games. We'll see how the astros strategy works out in five years...but if any of those top guys flame out, you lost 90 games for no reason and are back at square one.

    You especially don't punt if have a HOF in his prime (Plouffe...jk Doumit...ok Mauer).
    Crapshot? I really wouldn't say that. Some of the guys drafted in the top 5 in previous years haven't worked out, but that is where you are most likely to get a premium player.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post

    On the bright side, I think they'll have a pretty decent second half and finish short of 90 losses. But I'm bracing for the worst in the short-term.
    I concur with the first half of your analysis about painful times just ahead. However, on what basis are you seeing the bright side for the 2nd half?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodin4Calder View Post

    And once our prospects are up and we are contenders we will be looking to FA for veterans to give us depth. Theres alot of things a team must do to win a WS but the most important is to develop your best players through the draft.
    There is no evidence that the club has ever done this in the recent past to sufficiently insure a decent shot at a World Series win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I concur with the first half of your analysis about painful times just ahead. However, on what basis are you seeing the bright side for the 2nd half?
    Various reasons. Better pitchers plugged into the rotation, Hicks/Arcia hopefully settling in a bit more, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Various reasons. Better pitchers plugged into the rotation, Hicks/Arcia hopefully settling in a bit more, etc.
    ...different manager...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I concur with the first half of your analysis about painful times just ahead. However, on what basis are you seeing the bright side for the 2nd half?
    It's inexplicable, but teams often seem to get a spark once the high salary vets get traded and the manager gets canned.

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