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Thread: Cheers to Jason Collins

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Cheers to Jason Collins

    Brave indeed. Chris Broussard is off his rocker.

    And forget "tolerance" and move toward acceptance.

  2. #2
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Explain Broussard reference please?

    Good for him!

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    Good for Collins.

    I don't agree with Broussard, but what he said should not be that controversial of a position for a Christian to take. Not culturally sensitive but not off his rocker.

    Here is the quote:
    Personally, I don’t believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle, or like, premarital sex between heterosexuals… it says that that’s a sin… I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So, I would not characterize that person as a Christian, because I don’t think the Bible would characterize that person as a Christian.
    Papers...business papers.

  4. #4
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I disagree with Broussard, but he said that about as non-offensively as he can. Unfortunately most all major religions are still about exclusion as opposed to inclusion.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Good for Collins.

    I don't agree with Broussard, but what he said should not be that controversial of a position for a Christian to take. Not culturally sensitive but not off his rocker.
    His last sentence is where he's off his rocker. Basic Christian theology at its core says we're all sinners, fell short of being worthy of heaven on our own, and required Jesus as a sacrifice for all of our sins - past, current, and future. At the very basic level of Christian theology, everyone is in open rebellion to God in every moment of his/her earthly life, and by Broussard's words, that would deem them "not a Christian".

    Christianity is under fire for exactly reasons like this - the extreme nutjobs don't just attack those who don't believe in Christ, but those who do as well.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  6. #6
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I think Broussard meant by "open rebellion" = "sin with no desire forgiveness" - that's how I read it. That is considerably different than what you are suggesting ben.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Good lord (literally). He's using his religion to condemn someone as a "non-christian."

    FYI people: one can be a Christian and not hate gay people or think they are special dirty sinners at the same time.

    Or, if that is a wrong interpretation of my part, PERHAPS the religion itself should be called into question?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think Broussard meant by "open rebellion" = "sin with no desire forgiveness" - that's how I read it. That is considerably different than what you are suggesting ben.
    Yep, and there are plenty we do every day. Nearly every Christian church allows for a remarried pastor who has been divorced to serve in ministry, and Jesus specifically spoke against that sin and said nothing directly on homosexuality. I doubt the divorced pastor is going to kick his new wife to the curb so he's not in "open rebellion", yet his "rebellion" is accepted and being homosexual is not.
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  9. #9
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Yep, and there are plenty we do every day. Nearly every Christian church allows for a remarried pastor who has been divorced to serve in ministry, and Jesus specifically spoke against that sin and said nothing directly on homosexuality. I doubt the divorced pastor is going to kick his new wife to the curb so he's not in "open rebellion", yet his "rebellion" is accepted and being homosexual is not.
    But here's the thing - Collins isn't asking for forgiveness (nor should he have to) - that's the "open" part I think you're missing.

    And I'm not defending Broussard's point - I think it's entirely idiotic - but I don't think it was offensive. Stupid, but not "off his rocker" - it's not an uncommon Christian belief unfortunately.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    What I've learned it this thread (There may be a little staw man at work, but not much -- enjoy, my brothers and sisters):

    1. It's a sin to be a Christian (who takes the Bible seriously), or at least unfortunate and idiotic.

    2. Understanding the distinction of sex-act and sexuality is not understood or of no avail.

    3. The word "repent" is not nearly as well understood as I thought, but what I think doesn't matter (see 6).

    4. Identifying sin is hateful or at least culturally insensitive, but only when the identification is relevant to endeared victim groups demanding validation (see that identifying premarital heterosexual sex as sin is neither hateful nor culturally insensitive).

    5. The only good Christian is the Christian willing to believe whatever is expedient and whatever will ingratiate oneself to others (see 6 and inclusivity).

    6. TD can never have enough threads and posts

    a) celebrating tolerance and acceptance
    b) bashing views contrary to (a)

    7. Inconsistency doesn't matter as long as you hold the correct views....today (see 5 and inclusivity/exclusivity)

    8. Irony may not be well understood (see 6 and 7)

    9. Writing this list is super mean and bigoted, some will think.

    10. Therefore, this post will be flagged as offensive (see 7, 8, and 9)
    Last edited by Ultima Ratio; 04-30-2013 at 02:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    In lieu of an actual point I guess I would suggest another:

    11. This list is not, in fact super mean, but fails to be witty, thought provoking, or relevant.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Levi you pretty much nailed any point I would have made.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Broussard is a hack and they never should have had his ass on the air to begin with, as a Christian (Catholic) myself I find his "speaking of behalf of the religion" to be highly inflammatory and off base as well. He was also going off about how if you have pre martial sex you aren't a Christian....yeah..... what was ESPN thinking by bringing him on?

  14. #14
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    I think it was a brave act, otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal. You can read all over the interwebs the hatred for homosexuals and those that are fighting for them to have equal rights. Just read the Kluew threads on PFT for evidence of that.....

    As for religions, well, in addition to being about power, they are made up of people trying to interpret words that other people wrote about some kind of being that they all admit they can't understand. It is no wonder that so much of the intolerance, hatred, and violence of this world is driven by religion. Personally, I have no issue with Christains thinking sin exists, and that certain things are sins even if I totally disagree. The issue I have is trying to force their belief on others. NO ONE is forcing any church to marry homosexuals (just as no one is forcing the Catholic church to have female priests), all people are asking for is that governments be allowed to offer the same legal rights to homosexual couples that heterosexual couples have (well, to be fair, there is a tiny fringe asking for non-couple rights also, but I don't think that is a real thing).

    In summary, good for the brave man, bad for intolerance and bigotry, freedom is eventually coming to all.
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #15
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    But here's the thing - Collins isn't asking for forgiveness (nor should he have to) - that's the "open" part I think you're missing.
    However, neither would the divorced and remarried person either. That's what my point was. Nearly every Christian denomination would accept a divorced and remarried pastor to lead their congregation, and certainly they would not question the validity of his faith.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    How many references are there to homosexuality in the Bible? Does it extend beyond the lunacy of Leviticus?

    Because if it doesn't, I doubt there are many people out there who ask for forgiveness when they touch pig flesh or get a tattoo, yet they're still considered Christians.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    How many references are there to homosexuality in the Bible? Does it extend beyond the lunacy of Leviticus?

    Because if it doesn't, I doubt there are many people out there who ask for forgiveness when they touch pig flesh or get a tattoo, yet they're still considered Christians.
    There are 5: Leviticus, the Genesis story of Sodom, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Nothing from Jesus in the Gospels or Acts.
    Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!

  18. #18
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    There are 5: Leviticus, the Genesis story of Sodom, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Nothing from Jesus in the Gospels or Acts.
    Ah, okay. Still, my point applies. There is no sliding scale for the "level of sin". Anyone who claims that living outside the Bible without asking forgiveness is a hypocrite because everybody lives outside the Bible, and for good reason. You'd be thrown in jail in this country if you lived your life based on the book of Leviticus, yet last time I checked, that book is still in the Old Testament.

  19. #19
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    endeared victim groups
    This is the tail on your donkey.

  20. #20
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    This is the tail on your donkey.
    I always chuckle when Christians get high and mighty about divorce. That one made me laugh too. As if the "sin" of premarital sex has one iota of the same amount of attention Christians are giving to gays.

    Also, didn't Christianity essentially start with God having premarital sex with a virgin? That was my understanding.....

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