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Thread: Eduardo Escobar Should Start at Short

  1. #41
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    To me, Escobar has looked like the better defender thus far, and that's a lot more meaningful to me than their inflated early hitting lines. With a pitching staff that will create plenty of GB opportunities, I'll take the sure-handed guy who you can trust to convert anything hit in his area. I don't necesarily think it's time to cut bait on Florimon yet (though I'd start feeding Escobar semi-regular starts, as Gardy is doing) but I also think the leash should be very, very short. He's done nothing to earn a long one.
    This is pretty much how I feel. Escobar isn't flashy but he doesn't seem prone to blundering easy plays, either.

    When we get right down to the point, I'm not sure I care who starts. I haven't seen enough from either player to get too riled up about it but I am leaning slightly in favor of Escobar.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    An "Eduardo Escobar Best Friends Forever" tattoo across your back.
    You don't think two of those would be too much? :-)

  3. #43
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I understand your point, but the magnitude of the difference also matters.
    No, it really doesn't. It's not about "magnitude." A) If something is correct, you do it, no matter if the gain is small; and B) big league baseball is all about small differences, over time. Would you argue that if two players are identical, except one will post an OBP 5% higher, that it doesn't matter which one plays because the "magnitude" of the difference isn't big? Again, I really don't know if Escobar is the better player or not (I tend to think neither will be long term MLB starters), but you said you thought he was a better player. If you think that, then I believe you should be arguing for him being the starter, as the better player should always be the starter. Always.
    Last edited by USAFChief; 04-23-2013 at 10:26 AM.

  4. #44
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    I'm now firmly in the Escobar camp. I was at the game and good god, Florimon was awful. Dumb play after dumb play followed by a dumb at-bat. Brutal.

    I'm not one to put too much stock into one game but this game was too frustrating to ignore, especially when a similarly-skilled Escobar is sitting on the bench and doesn't seem nearly as prone to bone-headed plays out in the field (and made a hell of a nice play in the 8th inning to boot).

  5. #45
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    Escobar had the better fielding reputation as a prospect.

    They really do need to play out Florimon. He isn't useful as a utility player with no experience at other positions. Once they determine he isn't the answer as a starter, they can designate him for assignment.

    Escobar will struggle with he bat, but is young enough to get better. His poor numbers in the minors were in the context of being among the younger at his level. That doesn't mean he is a good hitter. It just offers more hope that he can be adequate. I'd rather suffer through growing pains with Escobar.

  6. #46
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    Yeah, I posted something in another thread defending giving Florimon an extended look. I'm no longer interested. Let him learn how to catch the ball in AAA for a while, then decide whether or not to keep him in the system. Last night was brutal.

  7. #47
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    I'm wondering where Florimon got his "defensive wizard" reputation to begin with. He's got great range and arm but I've seen far too many Casilla-like concentration lapses from him, and he definitely doesn't have the bat to compensate.

    I'm not real bullish on Escobar either but it's time to give him his opportunity to start.

  8. #48
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Escobar had the better fielding reputation as a prospect.

    They really do need to play out Florimon. He isn't useful as a utility player with no experience at other positions. Once they determine he isn't the answer as a starter, they can designate him for assignment.

    Escobar will struggle with he bat, but is young enough to get better. His poor numbers in the minors were in the context of being among the younger at his level. That doesn't mean he is a good hitter. It just offers more hope that he can be adequate. I'd rather suffer through growing pains with Escobar.
    Florimon's "usefulness as a utility player" hasn't been determined, nor should it factor into the discussion. Worry about finding a starting SS, then worry about finding a futility infielder, which are relatively easy to find, and not worth losing sleep over compared to finding a full time major league SS.

  9. #49
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    Just pick one, and give him 5 of every 7 starts.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. #50
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I for one am now officially done watching Florimon. The guy just does not look like a big league fielder. At any point he is going to have some bizarre mishap on something perfectly catchable. I'll take less flash (as RB correctly labeled) and range for some god damn consistency.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    I'm wondering where Florimon got his "defensive wizard" reputation to begin with. He's got great range and arm but I've seen far too many Casilla-like concentration lapses from him
    Plus, he's always been an error machine...and while I'm not a huge fan of judging fielders by errors and fielding %, his totals in the minors are hard to ignore.

  12. #52
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    After last night, I flipped my switch on Florimon. He wasn't charged with any errors, but I would have given him two. One for his dumb insistence on going to second with two outs when he had the sure out at first. The other on a ball hit right at him that got under his glove.

    Meanwhile, after pinch running for Rivera, Escobar made a play that I have not seen since Greg Gagne. On a hard-hit ball up the middle, he ranged behind the bag to snare it, wheeled and fired to get the fast runner at first. It was an awesome play.

    Count me among those who think he should be starting.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  13. #53
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennyhocking4HOF View Post
    My biggest concern is whether Eduardo's got a permit for his GUN?! I wouldn't want his arm to become a legal issue. Florimon's sling shot probably isn't an issue.
    Agreed that Escobar's got a gun for an arm. However, a few games ago I saw Pedro Florimon uncork one of the hardest throws I've ever seen. It was on the line drive grounder at Plouffe, which skipped off his glove and bounced high in the air. Florimon alertly circled under it, then caught and fired an absolute BB to Morneau. That ball must have been going over 100mph.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    I agree with comments praising Eduardo Escobar's fielding talents and his clutch hitting. If there's any reason not to move him permanent SS, it's his own versatility. Escobar appears to be the best super-sub utility man the Twins have had in quite awhile. I saw him field a carom off the left field sideline like a seasoned vet, then throw a frozen rope to second base. I've heard him mentioned as an emergency catcher. Is there any position he can't play?

  15. #55
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    I think I would give Florimon more time. He has the best tools/skills. I saw some of the same bonehead plays with Bartlett when he was here. The range and arm really matter at short, if there is some hope that the consistency can happen, as it did with other late maturing shortstops(like Bartlett) then give him some more time. Escobar isn't going anywhere, Gardy isn't burying him on the bench. I doubt that it matters too much right now if Escobar stays at utility man for awhile. If he deserves to start over Florimon, that decision will be made, eventually.

  16. #56
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    With his + glove at several positions, shouldn't we be looking at Escobar as the long term replacement for Jaime Carroll?

  17. #57
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    With his + glove at several positions, shouldn't we be looking at Escobar as the long term replacement for Jaime Carroll?
    Not if he's the best shortstop on the roster, which it appears he might be.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo92107 View Post
    Is there any position he can't play?
    Shortstop. Florimon's there.

  19. #59
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Shortstop. Florimon's there.
    John, your avatars seem to keep getting younger.

  20. #60
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Not if he's the best shortstop on the roster, which it appears he might be.
    Yeah, I guess there's nothing wrong with letting Escobar start for even a couple years and then be relegated to bench duty once we have our long term solution in place. He might not like it, however.

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