Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 43

Thread: Article: Threatening The Media

  1. #21
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    321
    Like
    0
    Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    To clarify, I mean the generation gap primarily in terms of readership. Of course there are younger beat reporters and oldster bloggers.
    Yes there are

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
    Posts
    582
    Like
    25
    Liked 22 Times in 15 Posts
    The beat reporters such as LaVelle have been supportive of these guys.
    Its the commentary guys such as Phil Mackey and Jim Souhan who feel that their private domain is being invaded.

    Souhan has been the Cheap Shot Artist. Below are some of his comments.

    "Wow, I make fun of Bloggers and lose three followers. Existential question:
    Did they get off couch in Mom's basement to unfollow me?"

    "They're also afraid of players, and think the Moneyball A's won bc of Chad Bradford, not Chavez-Mulder-Hudson-Zito-Tejada"

    You show a lot of class Souhan
    Last edited by Highabove; 03-28-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,742
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    I'm a Twins fan in Pittsburgh, PA so -- When the Strib was "free" (not the 15 articles a month then needing a paid subscription) and clean (before the horrible ad layout, especially the rollover ads), I'd go there to get the majority of my Twins news (along with mlb.com). I always enjoyed the Twinscentric articles/blogs published/linked on the Strib. With the combination of TWINS DAILY's existence, the annoying Strib issues mentioned above, and the quality of writing and information from all available Twins sites, I'm not at all surprised with the popularity of this site and the jealousy of the Strib. But you make the bed you sleep in. For the last couple weeks I've been hoping that the Twins Daily would get economic independence and sustainability --enough anyway-- to get a "beat" writer for this site with access to the club and following at least some games. Looks like this won't be happening because they won't be granted access though, which is really too bad. I think the Club execs would be surprised to find that open and more transparent coverage of their team would create more buzz and excitement -- increased dollars. Until then, I hope the Strib doesn't become any more of a propaganda tool for the Twins, and I don't use that world lightly.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  4. #24
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,627
    Like
    1,125
    Liked 536 Times in 355 Posts
    I found it fascinating when the STrib changed the way they handle comments, and when Howard actually said they don't want the site used for game commentary during a game. The Strib had a great opportunity to keep eyes and minds on their site, yet they told us they didn't want that. Since people want that, it is only logical that someone would take up that space. Since people want detailed analysis of the Twins' minor league system, and the STrib and ESPN1500 won't give us that, it is only logical that someone else will provide that. Since people want opinions and analysis that are more in depth than a paper will allow, it is only logical that someone else will provide that. If Mackey or anyone else thinks that the masses should not go to where the product is, I'm not sure what Mackey really knows about economic theory....It's clear that there is an appetite for what this site and others provide. As long as that appetite is not met through the mainstream media, sites like this will exist, thankfully.
    Lighten up Francis....

  5. #25
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    978
    Like
    3
    Liked 16 Times in 13 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    The beat reporters such as LaVelle have been supportive of these guys.

    Its the commentary guys such as Phil Mackey and Jim Souhan who feel that their private domain is being invaded.
    And those kind of writers should, because they're essentially paid bloggers who don't write as frequently and confuse the idea of access with facts. (I like Mackey, btw, but there are others I've stopped reading).

    I remember a Star Trib writer speculating that Joe Mauer was "depressed" based on his access, though that access didn't include Mauer. I also remember another Strib commentator criticizing Twins for not playing hurt and praising those that did. However, I took 10 minutes, unpaid out of my day, to fact check his article with statistics. player for player those that he praised as playing hurt were horrible when they played hurt (worse than replacement value). Finally, and more recently, take a look at what access gained with regard to Jason Marquis. Ryan told the reporters he was a guy who throws strikes (paraphrasing). I didn't see anyone but bloggers fact-checking this statement, which can be done literally in one minute, to find out he in fact has the same career walk-rate as Liriano.

    In the end, I really like Nick's take on the whole thing, too, that there really shouldn't be an argument as both are valuable. I can't expect paid sportswriters, who are covering many different avenues, to go as in-depth as the bloggers. However, those bloggers do require the initial access and reporting that comes from the paid outlets.
    Last edited by Alex; 03-28-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Below is a direct twitter quote from Phil Mackey. I find this amusing coming from someone with limited objectivity.

    Non Cooperate views need to be put in their place.

    "I appreciate the work of some sports bloggers. But at times I think some of their platforms are too large in 2012. No
    accountability."
    The irony for me is that as a person following the Twins from a thousand miles away, I know who guys like John Bonnes, Seth Stohs and Aaron Gleeman are. I have no idea who Phil Mackey is.

  7. #27
    The biggest concern I have with blogging comes in the way bloggers and posters like us police ourselves. The people who do most of the writing for this site I'm sure have standards and integrity...no one really wants to look dumb. If indeed factual information is posted by a writer on this site, I would like to believe they have checked those facts to the best of their ability. If opinion is offered, I would like to believe that those who read it and respond to it do so with decorum and in a responsible way.
    As for the regular press and media, it's a new age, and the sense of ownership and distribution of the information they feel privileged to seems threatened. I get that. There is room for all of us to write and enjoy the inner journalist within ourselves.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,967
    Like
    4
    Liked 115 Times in 82 Posts
    Blog Entries
    65
    So I would like to know more details about this spat.

  9. #29
    Administrator Double-A Twins Daily Admin's Avatar
    Posts
    164
    Like
    0
    Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by shanewahl View Post
    So I would like to know more details about this spat.
    Here's a pretty good synopsis, though there is more to the story.

    http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2...ts_blasted.php

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,622
    Like
    261
    Liked 195 Times in 120 Posts
    I think one point that Mackey may have been trying to make and that John seems to have missed is the accountability factor. John seems to think that if a blogger didn't supply "reliable information," no one would read them. I think that is a fantasy. The internet is full of very successful websites that cater to viewpoints based on crazy opinions, with no accountability. If a blogger wanted to write that Valencia is in Gardy's doghouse, or Punto is starting at short b/c he has pictures of Gardy, he'd find a audience regardless of the truth of that statement. Generally, I think the Twins bloggers and professional writers are pretty good, I enjoy reading most of them. But simply b/c a number of people read a free blog doesn't mean that the blog is giving reliable information.

  11. #31
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
    Posts
    2,430
    Twitter
    @twinsgeek
    Like
    1
    Liked 158 Times in 94 Posts
    Blog Entries
    240
    It's not the same accountability, to be sure. But to say there is no accountability is silly. It's definitely more long-term - occasional mistakes are tolerated whereas they might be smacked down by a corporate overseer. But I would submit that longer leash has been earned because the indy writer built it. The same thing happens for a radio host or corporate writer, too. If they greatly increase their following, their audience (and boss) are a lot more forgiving of missteps.

    I'd also suggest that if the only audience that follows a writer are the crazies, it doesn't matter if the audience is big - that viewpoint is still going to be viewed as suspect by the mainstream. It might annoying, but it isn't threatening.

  12. #32
    Wow, I regret missing this (sort of).
    As a blogger, the best test for accountability and the quality of the product is when I put out a post and no one reads it.
    That's pretty good incentive to step it up next time. Just because there's no boss overseeing the work product, I think most bloggers try to do a solid job, if for no other reason than to avoid embarrassment.
    John, I read the City Pages article. Thanks for holding your own there!
    Andrew Walter
    Twins Fan From Afar
    Providing Twins and Rock Cats Coverage
    http://twinsfanfromafar.blogspot.com
    Follow me on Twitter: @MNfanfromafar

  13. #33
    I think you crushed PMAC on twitter last nite. The "journalists" are so biased towards the club to make sure they can stay on the "inside". They are afraid to criticize if it means they potentially lose their job.

    Bottom line: the journalists are concerned that bloggers are doing their jobs BETTER! I appreciate the honest assessments we get on this site and other blogs where the Twins aren't just always applauded when at times they should be booooed.

    Keep up the good work.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,206
    Like
    1,248
    Liked 1,207 Times in 702 Posts
    Best laugh I had all day is this quote from the article cited by admin at 4:26: 'Mackey, for what it's worth, said in an e-mail this morning that "if I could go back in time, I would have presented my points with a less condescending tone." '

    He is almost always condescending. It is why I stopped following him on twitter months ago. The irony, for me, is that I generally think his reporting is more insightful than that of the Strib writers and various columnists.

    But he is a snotty twerp. So while I read what he writes on 1500ESPN, I unfollowed him a long time ago.

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,967
    Like
    4
    Liked 115 Times in 82 Posts
    Blog Entries
    65
    Honestly, this kind of thing is why I don't like Twitter. I could get drunk as a skunk and start saying stuff and then . . .

  16. #36
    On Vacation All-Star
    Posts
    4,139
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    35
    Liked 433 Times in 263 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    I finally got to get to read pretty much the whole thing and I think that I have somewhat crystallized an opinion about this whole thing...

    - I think that it is unfortunate that this started by Phil because a. I think that he is a nice guy (unlike his co-workers on ESPN - Doogie aside) and b. he was a blogger once (and kinda still is, only now he spoon feeds the same canned club-provided information fed by the others with "Access")
    - "Access" is over-rated. "Access" is as good as what you access is worth. The truth is that the Twins' organization is not one of those that is very open with what is going on, even to people with "Access". On the other hand, the last 3-4 years, information about Twins' transactions, including the Sano and Willingham signings, a few trades and other discussions with other clubs has broken not by the ones with the Press Cards and "Access", but by alternative sources with access to people who are willing to talk or willing to give them a call or a text if they hear of something happening. And I know that this does not sit well with the mainstream media
    - That said, being a reporter is like being muzzled when you hear something that you are not supposed to hear. You are just not suppose to print it. Otherwise "Access" would be lost. I feel their pain. Case in point. This morning at Fort Myers before the Twins game. The bench players were taking batting practice. On one of the far dugout cages, Gardenhire and Tom Kelly had a very animated conversation that got pretty loud about certain players. I heard it. It will probably affect cuts. Will I say what they said? No. But I will speak between words. Someone with a reporter's card and "Access" would not even hear that because as soon as he/she showed up there, the conversation would had turned the other way...

    Lesson? Nothing really... just live and let live.

  17. #37
    I like Mackey and think he does a helluva job. But, I also like Twins Daily and the bloggers. Everyone does a great job whether they have Access or not so who gives a ****. Let's all be buddies again.

  18. #38
    Just imagine if there were no bloggers. We'd have four outlets mostly reporting the same thing with their access. We'd also be stuck with Souhan and a couple other commentators rehashing tired jokes (less jokes if there were no bloggers in the first place). With more bloggers than i have time to read, i peruse as many stories as i can, I check out a few of the paid writers takes , I use sites like fangraphs, milb.com and many other to formulate some opinions without reading anyone and most importantly, I never need to bother with Souhan. Imagine Twins fan reading without Gleeman, Geek, Seth, Nick, Parker, Thrylos, Topper, kbro and many others with opinions, analysis and fun stuff. I enjoy Lavelle and Mackey usually has good stuff, but they are more replaceable than the best bloggers.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by shawntheroad View Post
    Just imagine if there were no bloggers. We'd have four outlets mostly reporting the same thing with their access. We'd also be stuck with Souhan and a couple other commentators rehashing tired jokes (less jokes if there were no bloggers in the first place). With more bloggers than i have time to read, i peruse as many stories as i can, I check out a few of the paid writers takes , I use sites like fangraphs, milb.com and many other to formulate some opinions without reading anyone and most importantly, I never need to bother with Souhan. Imagine Twins fan reading without Gleeman, Geek, Seth, Nick, Parker, Thrylos, Topper, kbro and many others with opinions, analysis and fun stuff. I enjoy Lavelle and Mackey usually has good stuff, but they are more replaceable than the best bloggers.
    I think you're onto something with that last sentence -- just like we have Wins Above Replacement, and Replacement Level players in baseball (Drew Butera), do we have a replacement level Twins reporter in MN, one that could be replaced by one of the bloggers?
    Andrew Walter
    Twins Fan From Afar
    Providing Twins and Rock Cats Coverage
    http://twinsfanfromafar.blogspot.com
    Follow me on Twitter: @MNfanfromafar

  20. #40

    @ East Coast Twin

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Twin View Post
    The irony for me is that as a person following the Twins from a thousand miles away, I know who guys like John Bonnes, Seth Stohs and Aaron Gleeman are. I have no idea who Phil Mackey is.
    You should learn who Phil Mackey is. He's really good at what he does and despite what prompted this post might indicate isn't a a close-minded cheap shot artist like Souhan. The best mix of inside information and advanced stats that you'll find as a Twins fan.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.