Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 161

Thread: Over moderation

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    I made my thoughts known privately on this, but since this is an open dialogue, I'll say them here. I say them with some bitterness (which I will explain) but I'm trying to make it constructive.

    In John's last post he has a bolded area which was not previously in the rules and only later did I realize was added after I received a one week ban. For one, this bolded area is an incredibly gray/vague set of standards. I liked what John had told me at one point, "If you think it's probably the wrong thing to say, then don't say it". I think, vague though it is, it's at least understandable.

    However, I was warned for telling someone that their argument was "not making sense" and another poster that their line of argument was "obtuse". Given the above standard, I'm totally confused how I was banned. In fact, as I pointed out privately, John Bonnes had recently referred to Reusse as "unhinged" (a much more clear violation according to posted policy) and yet this was apparently ok.

    My issue is not necessarily over-moderation - it's unclear, seemingly personal moderation. If the moderators are operating from the same page and the expectations are clear, then I can either choose to live by those rules or not. But this moderation group doesn't appear to have a clear standard nor has it enforced it clearly or fairly. I have a much bigger concern with that.

    Also, in fairness, I certainly have been antagonistic in the past. Won't deny that. I had it out with Nick N. in private, I believe we had an understanding and I would think anyone that has looked over my posts for the last few weeks would see that I've been following the policy as closely as I can. That I would receive a one week ban for (as this board has suggested in the past is ok) attacking arguments rather than people - is baffling to me. I called an argument "clownish" and "not making sense" and I was warned. I called another one "obtuse" and received a ban. Not once did I attack the person in any of those posts. Yet I was banned.

    I need clarity on what will not get me banned or better clarity on what is the problem. The posted policy does not match current enforcement. So I'm bitter about it being changed mid-stream and then banning me for not following a change that was neither announced nor has been clarified. I have asked (numerous times to numerous moderators) to please illuminate what I should be doing differently. The best I have gotten was to say "not makes sense to me" rather than "not makes sense". Which, not to be glib, does not make sense to me.

    I await some actual clarification and hope to god something in here was not considered worthy of a ban. At this point I feel like I need to have eyes in the back of my head.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 03-19-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    hell me and Lev have been going back and forth for a better half of a decade now with several names and insults, it doesn't seem to bother us one bit.
    Well, other than my secret undying hatred of you and your Ponderholicness.

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    I actually think you should let the membership police themselves for the most part, it may result in a rough moment here and there. Or just let Brock dole out all the bans, he has the most expirence running forums in the past and I can't recall one time where anyone really thought he was being unfair (and yes he did ban multiple people from BYTO when it got out of hand), I'm not saying it needs to be the wild wild west...but come on, what Lev says is completely accurate.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Well, other than my secret undying hatred of you and your Ponderholicness.
    Oh God, not to get to off topic but I am not some diehard Ponder fan, I just say let the kid have a chance, the Vikings have broken my heart enough where I almost just try to look at it as glass half full as possible, since they will inevitably do a bunch of crap that defies all logic and reason eventually.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Even at my most drunk, I still follow the rules around here . . .

  6. #26
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Oh God, not to get to off topic but I am not some diehard Ponder fan, I just say let the kid have a chance, the Vikings have broken my heart enough where I almost just try to look at it as glass half full as possible, since they will inevitably do a bunch of crap that defies all logic and reason eventually.
    Jesus Dave, sarcasm. Unless your post was sarcasm of my sarcasm in which case I just had a small blood vessel pop in my brain from the awesomeness......

  7. #27
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Jesus Dave, sarcasm. Unless your post was sarcasm of my sarcasm in which case I just had a small blood vessel pop in my brain from the awesomeness......
    No I know it was sarcasm, I just don't want everyone else thinking I am a Ponderholic I have been in PA for 12 months now and the steps have been working!!

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Even at my most drunk, I still follow the rules around here . . .
    Speaking of Drunk we REALLY need to bring back the Drunken Random Thoughts thread we had, if not for anything more then "RonGardenhire's" tales of trying to pick up chicks and failing miserably.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    199
    Like
    11
    Liked 53 Times in 21 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Dave and Lev, can we perhaps agree on a policy of "Be excellent to each other."

    Man I hope the membership of this site is old enough to get this.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,788
    Like
    234
    Liked 486 Times in 234 Posts
    DPJ--Banned
    Fro--Banned
    Dave--Suspended
    Lev--Suspended

    Coincidence?

    Come to think of it, I haven't seen the Chief around lately. I hope no one stepped on his lawn.
    Chris Hermann solves everything. hat tip to jokin

  11. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    626
    Like
    12
    Liked 37 Times in 31 Posts
    It will be interesting to see if those that contribute mostly snark will be around. Hopefully a Fro without the attitude will come back. For the most part he knows a lot more than those he got frustrated with.

  12. #32
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
    Posts
    2,447
    Twitter
    @twinsgeek
    Like
    1
    Liked 164 Times in 96 Posts
    Blog Entries
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I actually think you should let the membership police themselves for the most part, it may result in a rough moment here and there. Or just let Brock dole out all the bans, he has the most expirence running forums in the past and I can't recall one time where anyone really thought he was being unfair (and yes he did ban multiple people from BYTO when it got out of hand), I'm not saying it needs to be the wild wild west...but come on, what Lev says is completely accurate.
    Well, I understand that's what you think. But that was an old site, and this is a new one. So I'm clear....
    - We won't tolerate self-policing by snark and personal attacks. That is not going to change. We will suspend people for that and move towards a ban.
    - Brock isn't going to be the only one doling out bans. It isn't fair to put him in that position, plus he's busy, plus there are others who have to live with this site as well.
    - It is certainly possible that there will be some inconsistency. First, because we might make mistakes. But also, because we are limited in our bandwidth and at some point being a pain-in-the-butt is just trolling the moderators. So, that might happen, but so far it has been a temporary 3 or 7 day suspension. (The only time we've banned someone outright was when they ignored the suspension, and eventually we lifted that too. ) That seems like a pretty reasonable (maybe even too light) price to pay.

    I hope everyone can live within those boundaries.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,855
    Like
    12
    Liked 71 Times in 42 Posts
    BYTO isn't coming back.

    I admire the goal of creating intelligent and respectful, I'm just skeptical it can ever exist on an internet message board. If someone posts nonsense and respectful disagreement won't dissuade them, that is what you are left with. And it's a lot less fun in the process.
    Papers...business papers.

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    Why is snark considered so bad? That is what I am confused about, making a smart ass remark or snark isn't a personal attack, and frankly if the person its made to isn't offended why should someone decide to be offended for them?

    For instance, Lev can call me a homer or Ponderholic or much worse and I really don't care because we go way back several years and some friendly or unfriendly jabs might occur. If neither of us are offended and we don't derail the thread why should one of us be warned or banned?

    Also I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I am generally curious as I know those scenarios will pop up once the season starts and real games are played.
    Last edited by SpiritofVodkaDave; 03-19-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,851
    Like
    180
    Liked 668 Times in 377 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    frankly if the person its made to isn't offended why should someone decide to be offended for them?
    I think this is a good point. I disagree with you Dave that we should let snark self-police. BYTO is gone and I think we can all move on with that. But that bolded text is basically saying "If we think someone might be maybe offended you could be banned" - which is so arbitrary I'm not sure where to start. Again, I'm just waiting for some clarity.

    I don't think that's too much to ask and should be the first milestone any moderation effort seeks to establish before going ban-happy. I get not wanting people to call each other idiots, but the moderation here has gone WAY past that. I would almost think it farcical nannyism if it wasn't actually happening.

  16. #36
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,529
    Like
    78
    Liked 173 Times in 107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31
    The articles bring me to this site. Why not make them more prominent? Keep the forum content distinct from the article content. Keep the front page for the articles. The side bar can feature links to recent articles organized by key writer. Let me see links to the most recent articles by Parker, Seth,... Expect baseball focused discussion related to these articles.

    Let the threads in the forum be the place where the standards of discussion are different. Don't relink articles in the forum. Those that enjoy bantering mixed with a little baseball discussion will head there for entertainment. Remove the links to the forum from the front page.

    Just my two cents. There has been some terrific baseball writing on this site in the last year. There has also been some entertaining banter. Ideally the banter doesn't overshadow the quality of the content.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    626
    Like
    12
    Liked 37 Times in 31 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think this is a good point. I disagree with you Dave that we should let snark self-police. BYTO is gone and I think we can all move on with that. But that bolded text is basically saying "If we think someone might be maybe offended you could be banned" - which is so arbitrary I'm not sure where to start. Again, I'm just waiting for some clarity.

    I don't think that's too much to ask and should be the first milestone any moderation effort seeks to establish before going ban-happy. I get not wanting people to call each other idiots, but the moderation here has gone WAY past that. I would almost think it farcical nannyism if it wasn't actually happening.
    If it is clear that you and Dave are friends then it should be obvious and any reasonable person shouldn't have a problem. But others can't see a friendly jab. Make an issue of it. Not every jab out there is between friends. Think Snepp and Nursie are friends?

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Think Snepp and Nursie are friends?
    I don't really care, if one of them has an issue with the other they should bring it up to the moderators or whatever. It's not my decision nor my desire to decide if one of them should be offended or not.

  19. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,742
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    A ban for 3-7 days is hardly egregious. Accept it, learn from it, come back or don't. It's a great baseball site. Some commenters' snark is well done, fun and refreshing. I appreciate it. Others are either very bad at snark, or are intentionally ill-willed. Kinda like the difference between art and pornography. You know it when you see it. Self-censoring for fear (or to avoid the hassle) of being beat up by other commenters may be a growing problem.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  20. #40
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 389 Times in 204 Posts
    That is one of the worst analogies I have ever read/heard. Wow just wow. And I say that with all due respect.

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.