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Thread: Zulgad: Terry Ryan is Good News for Ron Gardenhire

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    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Zulgad: Terry Ryan is Good News for Ron Gardenhire

    Judd Zulgad writes about how Ron Gardenhire has at least one believer in the organization. And it's an important one: his boss.

    While Gardenhire will be under pressure to turn things around in 2013, he also knows that Ryan believes in him and, maybe even more importantly, appears to have ultimate say on baseball matters within the Twins' organization.
    It will be interesting this season to see how Gardenhire ends up. With Terry Ryan at the helm, I don't think Gardy will be judged bases on wins and losses. He might get fired based on other things. But it isn't going to be just because of a 90-loss season. Ryan knows the talent level on this team. And he knows he put Gardy in a tough situation by building for the future instead of the present.

    And that's the way it should be, IMHO.

    http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Z...rdenhire021813

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer FrodaddyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    But it isn't going to be just because of a 90-loss season.
    How about 3 of them?

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    Gardenhire is a Ryan disciple--or he would never have been manager in the first place--his job is safe.

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    When the sheet hits the fan someone has to take the fall.

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    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    When the sheet hits the fan someone has to take the fall.
    I don't think Ryan works like that.

    I still think the most likely way Gardenhire is fired is if Ryan steps down. And I think Ryan has done enough for future years to weather this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
    How about 3 of them?
    totally agreeing 3 of them , yeah thats the ticket fire all 3 of them ST.Pete,Ryan and Gardy

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I don't think Ryan works like that.

    I still think the most likely way Gardenhire is fired is if Ryan steps down. And I think Ryan has done enough for future years to weather this one.
    What has he done John?
    He traded 2 mlb starters for a sore armed starter, a double A struggler and a single A pitcher?
    Or are you referring to his payroll slashing moves?While the moves were decent I believe other generals could have done as well or better.
    If nothing else he should have gotten Washington to throw in Lannon , a player they were going to non tender any way....

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    It's an interesting situation. Figure that Gardy's primary goal is maximizing wins this season while Ryan needs to play a longer game.

    So what happens if, say, Hicks looks awesome in spring training and Gardy wants to start him in CF April 1, but Ryan wants to hold him in AAA for service time reasons? I suppose this stuff happens all the time and they probably have a decent working relationship/arbitration process, so it's not like I'm expecting him to him to punch in Ryan's door. I'm just sure Gardy's going to be real pissed if he doesn't get all the tools he wants (see also: starting rotation) and yet ends up without a job, and I wouldn't blame him.

    I don't think that managers make much of a difference, but I do feel a twinge of pity for a guy who saw us through so many pretty awesome years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I don't think Ryan works like that.

    I still think the most likely way Gardenhire is fired is if Ryan steps down. And I think Ryan has done enough for future years to weather this one.
    You think Ryan would take the bullet for Gardy? I'm not so sure. I'm sure Ryan would rationalize it thusly: If I take the hit and spare Gardy, they'll replace me and my replacement will then want to get a new manager anyway. No reason for us both to go down with the ship.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    I appreciate loyalty, but I don't know if it is really the same in the sports business.
    Sometimes even good managers/head coaches have to go to make a statement to the team.
    You can't fire ALL the players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgoat_MN View Post
    I appreciate loyalty, but I don't know if it is really the same in the sports business.
    Sometimes even good managers/head coaches have to go to make a statement to the team.
    You can't fire ALL the players.
    No but you can fire the guys who made the decisions to acquire those inadaquate players instead.

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    This "arrangement" is safe for three more seasons at a minimum. The Payroll is falling, the minor leagues are building, and time was granted to turn the ship around. These two will get three more years minimum for the "Prospects" to reach the Twins and for the rotation to settle-in-place. If the ownership wanted immediate action--a whole new Front Office would have been appointed and lots of money spent on players. Since that didn't happen it is safe to assume the "slow and easy course" (with the required slash/burn or payroll) will be used--at least three years and maybe four.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    I don't think Ryan works like that.

    I still think the most likely way Gardenhire is fired is if Ryan steps down. And I think Ryan has done enough for future years to weather this one.
    I agree that as long as TR stays, Gardenhire probably will too. If TR thinks that its OK to have a manager that values bunting ability in a #2 hitter, another loosing season isn't going to change his mind.

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    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    I would not be surprised if Gardenhire is OK with leaving or taking a different role, like Kelly did. Three horrible seasons in a row must be painful for him, and he might even be glad to get a fresh start elsewhere. It seems noteworthy that his contract expires at the end of this year. And sometimes it just makes sense to get a new manager.

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    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    I would not be surprised if Gardenhire is OK with leaving or taking a different role, like Kelly did. Three horrible seasons in a row must be painful for him, and he might even be glad to get a fresh start elsewhere. It seems noteworthy that his contract expires at the end of this year. And sometimes it just makes sense to get a new manager.
    It could play out that way. I feel like Gardy is way too competitive and wants to see this thing through. You'll recall that TK, when he stepped down, waited until he got through the dark times. 2001 was when things came together, though they finished poorly.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    I would not be surprised if Gardenhire is OK with leaving or taking a different role, like Kelly did. Three horrible seasons in a row must be painful for him, and he might even be glad to get a fresh start elsewhere. It seems noteworthy that his contract expires at the end of this year. And sometimes it just makes sense to get a new manager.
    I've suspected it could play out this way. After all those wins, I doubt Gardy is crazy about the idea of losing another 90 games in 2013 but unless something goes horribly wrong this season, I don't think he'll be fired.

    On the other hand, I think anything over 75 wins almost guarantees he stays on and gets an extension. If there is hope for 2014 and beyond, I can see Gardenhire wading through one or two more losing seasons with the payoff of seeing another contender emerge mid-decade.

    And really, I'm okay with that. Gardenhire drives me nuts at times but every baseball manager not named Joe Maddon drives me nuts at times. It's the nature of the job and in the end, I think Gardenhire's reported ability to run a tight clubhouse is just as important as his (IMO) failures in game management.

    Baseball managers just don't matter that much unless they're exceptional (see Maddon, Joe).

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    How is this going to play out though if this is another disaster season? Gardenhire's contract is up after 2013, are they really going to give him a two or three year deal after three consecutive 90 loss seasons? I don't know that they'd want to make that kind of statement to the fans. The other option is continually giving him one year deals, but that is a rarity in the MLB, neither the manager or the team would want a lame duck status rolling over annually for their manager.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    .. but every baseball manager not named Joe Maddon drives me nuts at times. It's the nature of the job and in the end, I think Gardenhire's reported ability to run a tight clubhouse is just as important as his (IMO) failures in game management.
    Baseball managers just don't matter that much unless they're exceptional (see Maddon, Joe).
    I bet if you really followed the Rays with the same passion you followed the Twins, Maddon would drive you just as nuts. I agree he's the best of the bunch, by the way. But hop over to a Rays board and you find just as many 'Maddon is the reason we don't win it all' posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Gardenhire's contract is up after 2013, are they really going to give him a two or three year deal after three consecutive 90 loss seasons? I don't know that they'd want to make that kind of statement to the fans.
    Well, no Twins team ever lost as many games in back to back seasons as the Twins have done the last two seasons...and no MLB manager has ever led his team to more consecutive playoff losses either...yet he's still with the team. I'm not sure they worry too much about what they're saying to the fans by keeping him.

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    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganJones View Post
    I bet if you really followed the Rays with the same passion you followed the Twins, Maddon would drive you just as nuts. I agree he's the best of the bunch, by the way. But hop over to a Rays board and you find just as many 'Maddon is the reason we don't win it all' posts.
    I doubt it. I get annoyed when the manager doesn't do EXACTLY as I expect but if I can see the reasoning behind his actions 90% of the time or better, I generally let it slide. In the case of Maddon, I'm even willing to go farther and give him the benefit of the doubt because he does so many things right that I'd second-guess if I was missing the reasoning behind a move.

    With Gardy, not so much. The guy is predictable and some of his in-game habits are... not bright and rather indefensible. On the other hand, the guy seems to be a great clubhouse manager and in baseball, I think that counts for nearly as much as in-game management skills (maybe more on some teams). All in all, I think Ron is a pretty good manager because of baseball's unique position of being a 162 game season of individual performances. In baseball, a lot of the time the best thing the manager can do is keep everyone pointed in the correct direction and just get the hell out of their way.

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