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Thread: History of Twins top 100 prospects

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    History of Twins top 100 prospects

    Since 1996, the Twins have had 35 different players on BA's top 100. I thought it would be interesting to see how well they did since we now have another crop of big prospects coming up. Also interesting is that guys like Span, Santana, Baker, Koskie and Radke were never ranked. Boof was ranked with the Giants but not the Twins.

    Highest ranking in parenthesis, by position.

    C - Mauer (1), LeCroy (44), Ramos (58), Valentin (58) - Not too bad, really. Valentin and LeCroy had long careers. Mauer's on a HOF path and Ramos is one of the better young catchers in baseball right now.

    1B - Morneau (14), Ortiz (84), Parmelee (94) - again, not bad. Morneau and Ortiz have both had a number of great seasons. Parmelee still has a chance.

    2B - Rivas (55) - not quite a bust but never really developed.

    3B - Walker (7), Sano (18), Moses (75) - Sano probably moves to the OF. Walker moved to 2B. Moses busted.

    SS - Guzman (68) - Nice solid career.

    OF - Kubel (17), Cuddyer (17), Hicks (19), Restovich (26), Gomez (52), Revere (59), Hunter (79), Garbe (79), Benson (99) - Solid group with Hunter and Cuddyer both becoming all stars and Revere and Kubel being solid players. Restovich never quite made it but was a big time prospect, struck out too much but had real power. I think he played in Japan.

    P - Liriano (6), Garza (21), Milton (25), Hawkins (30), Gibson (34), Guerra (35), Johnson (41), Blackburn (56), Crain (63), Perkins (66), Durbin (66), Slowey (71), Serafini (76), Swarzak (100) - Some successes here as Liriano and Milton were all stars, Garza, Blackburn, Slowey all had some good seasons and Crain, Hawkins, Perkins and Swarzak have been good bullpen arms. Liriano is the big what if guy. But it's also fair to say that Liriano and Garza were the only two that could be a true #1 or #2 type pitcher. Gibson (and Meyer) might move into that group but most of our ranked starting pitching prospects were 3s or lower. That's probably pretty common actually.

    Successes* (38%) - Mauer, Morneau, Ortiz, Cuddyer, Kubel, Revere, Hunter, Garza, Milton, Crain, Perkins
    Nice seasons/good before injury (21%) - Ramos, Guzman, Liriano, Hawkins, Blackburn, Slowey
    Meh - (24%) Valentin, LeCroy, Rivas, Walker, Gomez, Serafini, Swarzak
    Busts (17%) - Moses, Restovich, Garbe, Johnson, Durbin
    Jury's still out - Parmelee, Sano, Hicks, Benson, Gibson, Guerra (being kind)
    * compared to ranking

    Of the busts, Moses, Garbe and Johnson were all ranked high after they were drafted but fell off. Durbin and Restovich both actually made it to the majors but didn't do much.
    Last edited by gunnarthor; 02-13-2013 at 10:19 AM.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Fun article, I enjoyed reading it. Adam Johnson was the name that leapt to the front of my mind as the biggest bust in recent team history. I was always hearing about how much talent he had, but whenever I'd look at his minor league stats they were always beyond terrible. Too bad.

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    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Not a whole lot of middle infielders on that list!

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    Maybe Rosario next season

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I'd call Revere a success... 2012 still had plenty of room for improvement... though I suppose turning him into Worley and May counts as a success...

    Rivas was pretty below average his entire career and would likely have been considered a bust on some other teams with middle infilelders in their system... and yes, it seems clear that developing decent MI talent is something the Twins don't do well.... Here's to hoping they can flip Morneau or Willingham for a SS in the top 100 come the deadline.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I kind of always feel bad for Restovich. He was a very strong prospect with the Twins when they had an outfield that included Jacque Jones, Torii Hunter and Matt Lawton and then Shannon Stewart and then Michael Cuddyer. He had amazing power but the strikeouts hurt him. Also, when given an opportunity, guys like Dustin Mohr and Michael Ryan came up fairly big in their initial attempts and got more opportunities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm not sure I'd call Revere a success... 2012 still had plenty of room for improvement... though I suppose turning him into Worley and May counts as a success... .
    Revere and Ramos were the tricky ones. On one hand, both are ML regulars now. On the other hand, both have really only had one solid season. Both of them peaked in the late 50s on the list. So I split the difference and put one in the success group and the other in the one below it so it didn't look like I was calling too many guys successes. Hawkins/Kubel was the other split considering their high rankings. Hawkins was a very good relief pitcher but it took him so long to get there. And Kubel came back from the really bad injury to be a pretty solid bat. But you could argue that Kubel has been overrated b/c he's really just a DH.

  8. #8
    Carlos Gomez ....meh??? 19HR 37SB .463SLgg .768OPS, pretty solid yr but Twins fans fail to acknowledge it....hes a solid major leaguer.
    Todd Walker....meh??? .289/.348/.435 career in 4554 ABs.....very solid career, just not All Star level, again Twins fans never acknowledge him

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    In summary, we should be more subdued with our expectations with the present class of prospects. My inference from reading TD posts concerning "The Magnificent Seven" is that most reactions range from glee to euphoria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    In summary, we should be more subdued with our expectations with the present class of prospects. My inference from reading TD posts concerning "The Magnificent Seven" is that most reactions range from glee to euphoria.
    I was actually thinking the opposite although I don't think about prospects as future HOFers. If you consider the 10 BA prospects that have been ranked or likely will be - Sano, Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, Meyer, Parmelee, Benson, Guerra and maybe Rosario, two will bust (just guessing - Guerra and Benson), two be disappointing replacement level pros (Parmelee and Arcia), two will be good regulars for a bit who might be injured later (Meyer and Rosario) and four would be successes (Sano, Buxton, Gibson and Hicks). Of course that just assumes the % stay the same and that the ranking I gave them was right. GG made a solid point about Gomez and Walker.

    But I thought it was an interesting way to look at our prospect history. We seem to be weak at developing MI but we've had some nice successes behind the plate (AJ and Morales weren't included) and in the OF (guys like Mohr, Keilty and Ford all had solid seasons too), which bodes well for Hicks, Arcia, Buxton and Sano (who I think ends up in RF).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    In summary, we should be more subdued with our expectations with the present class of prospects. My inference from reading TD posts concerning "The Magnificent Seven" is that most reactions range from glee to euphoria.
    I partially agree with this. Although for every pie in the sky outlook about a prospect, you'll find the opposite "Twins track record" stuff, with Adam Johnson as the poster boy of Twins ineptitude. The probability is pretty high that four of five of our top ten prospects have outstanding careers while only a couple are complete dissappointments. Another few are meh.

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    Here are compiled lists dating back all the way to 1990:

    Compiled List of Baseball America's Top 100 Lists from 1990 to 2010 - Beyond the Box Score

    It would add these names to your list:

    1B - David McCarty (16), Paul Sorrento (91)

    2B - Chuck Knoblauch (72)

    OF - Midre Cummings (33), Rich Becker (37)

    P - Willie Banks (13), Rich Garces (15), Pat Mahomes (25), Johnny Ard (46), Mike Trombley (53), Marc Barcelo (70), Todd Ritchie (73), Kevin Tapani (88), Alan Newman (96)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Here are compiled lists dating back all the way to 1990:

    Compiled List of Baseball America's Top 100 Lists from 1990 to 2010 - Beyond the Box Score

    It would add these names to your list:

    1B - David McCarty (16), Paul Sorrento (91)

    2B - Chuck Knoblauch (72)

    OF - Midre Cummings (33), Rich Becker (37)

    P - Willie Banks (13), Rich Garces (15), Pat Mahomes (25), Johnny Ard (46), Mike Trombley (53), Marc Barcelo (70), Todd Ritchie (73), Kevin Tapani (88), Alan Newman (96)
    Sorrento was a very solid pro for a decade.
    Knoblauch should be in the Twins HOF if not for politics
    Becker has a couple solid years (pre sabermetrics) before being a Twins laughingstock punching bag (which I dont agree with)

    Pitchers show had horrible Tom Kelly/Dick Such were at developing pitchers. Everyone comes to TKs defense that he had nobody to work with, but this shows that the scouts thought they did & they screwed everyone but Tapani up....(maybe Ritchie in Pitt succedded).

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm not sure I'd call Revere a success... 2012 still had plenty of room for improvement... though I suppose turning him into Worley and May counts as a success...

    Rivas was pretty below average his entire career and would likely have been considered a bust on some other teams with middle infilelders in their system... and yes, it seems clear that developing decent MI talent is something the Twins don't do well.... Here's to hoping they can flip Morneau or Willingham for a SS in the top 100 come the deadline.
    I think Revere will ultimately go onto to have a pretty long and "meh" career at the plate but has some great defense and speed, much like Juan Pierre, however that certainly has value as does Pierre, so Revere at the end of the day goes down as a success in my book.

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    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    This is a great thread -- both the original post and the comments. Thanks, gunnarthor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz View Post


    Pitchers show had horrible Tom Kelly/Dick Such were at developing pitchers. Everyone comes to TKs defense that he had nobody to work with, but this shows that the scouts thought they did & they screwed everyone but Tapani up....(maybe Ritchie in Pitt succedded).
    In many threads of many forums I have read similar comments concerning Gardenhire/Anderson. I wonder: Do the fans of most every team say the same about their Mgr/ pitching coach? Was there a basic similarity of style/thought/something between TK/Such and Gardenhire/Anderson, or is it just something unique to Twins fans?

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Not a whole lot of middle infielders on that list!
    I would wonder if that's true for most teams. Seems that a lot of the ranked prospects show up because of offensive potential and a lot of those guys that might be MI in MiLB end up moving off to other positions.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    In many threads of many forums I have read similar comments concerning Gardenhire/Anderson. I wonder: Do the fans of most every team say the same about their Mgr/ pitching coach? Was there a basic similarity of style/thought/something between TK/Such and Gardenhire/Anderson, or is it just something unique to Twins fans?
    Short answer - Yes

  19. #19
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    I would wonder if that's true for most teams. Seems that a lot of the ranked prospects show up because of offensive potential and a lot of those guys that might be MI in MiLB end up moving off to other positions.
    I'm too lazy to do the work on every other team's top 100 prospects since 1996. Maybe every team has that same difficulty.

    3 top 100 MI prospects in the last 17 years (Guzman, Rivas, and Walker) isn't going to cut it for any team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    I'm too lazy to do the work on every other team's top 100 prospects since 1996. Maybe every team has that same difficulty.

    3 top 100 MI prospects in the last 17 years (Guzman, Rivas, and Walker) isn't going to cut it for any team.
    I did the same check for the Tigers. 29 players since 1996.

    C - Inge (67) - Inge had a nice career.

    1B - Munson (23), Clark (86) - Clark had a real nice, long career. 3 30hr seasons. Munson, meh at best.

    2B - none

    3B - Castellanos (45) - He'll be rated a lot higher in the next BA listing

    SS - Infante (95), Santiago (95) - both debuted in 02 and played last year in Det. Both are pretty much replacement level for career but considering their ranking, I think you'd call them both successes.

    OF - Maybin (6), Encarnacion (15), Kapler (34), Granderson (57), Jackson (76), Clevlen (98) - Clevlen is the only real bust. Maybin is still young and was part of the Cabrera trade. Granderson is the real prize but the others have been solid.

    P - Verlander (8), Miller (10), Bonderman (20), Porcello (21), Turner (21), Anderson (24), Drumright (35), Zumaya (35), Sleeth (36), Cordero (41), German (42), Crosby (47), Weaver (51), Cornejo (55), Greisnger (55), Baugh (79), Oliver (87). Some real successes here, especially with Verlander. Bonderman and Porcello had some good times but considering their ranking, probably a little disappointing. German made the majors, got hurt, no real impact. Nate Cornejo went 6-17 w/ 2.1 K/9!!! in his best year (1.3 WAR year). I guess he's a 'meh'? Baugh never made the majors.

    Successes - (42%) Inge, Clark, Infante, Santiago, Encarnacion, Kapler, Granderson, Jackson, Verlander, Cordero
    solid for a bit/great but hurt - (21%) Miller, Bonderman, Porcello, Zumaya, Weaver
    meh - (13%) Munson, German, Cornejo
    busts - (26%) Clevlen, Anderson, Drumright,Sleeth, Greisinger, Baugh
    jury's still out - Castellanos, Maybin, Turner, Crosby, Oliver

    So a few thoughts. Twins aren't only team that has injuries or a lot of #3 or later pitching prospects. Tigers did two things the Twins don't do much of - they traded a lot of these prospects - Maybin, Miller, Kapler, Cordero, Weaver, Turner. Not all those trades worked. They also went over slot to get guys in the draft like Porcello. MI are tough to find and be ranked.

    The Tigers, since 96, have had 9 picks in the top 10. Verlander and Maybin are really the only two successes. Twins had some misses in that period, too, but not quite as many or as bad.

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