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Thread: Article: Brian Dozier Learned from 2012, Looks Forward to 2013

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    My recollection isn't quite the same, that he had his detractors where it came to range, versus the very best of his peers of course. But he was the embodiment of the Twins Way to make sure to make 99% of the routine plays and let the other guys worry about the spectacular plays. Florimon seems to be the opposite of that, I'm not sure where Dozier comes on that spectrum.

    When I alluded to "average" CF or SS, I meant starters. Among the full list of major league SS, Gagne definitely was above average.
    Our recollection is actually very similar, it's just that I was making a slightly different point. Gagne's defensive rep varied somewhat, but basically I remember it like this: Average range that grew, either in practice or just by reputation, to above average. Excellent hands and positional awareness, and one of the best shortstop arms in either league.

    While admittedly limited as a stat, Gagne's Range Factor per 9 innings history exactly mirrors the perceived mid-career increase to significantly above league-average range, for what it's worth. Fielding runs above average shows his defense was about 7 or 8 runs better per season than the rest of the league on average. And despite his hacktastic approach at the plate, he managed about 2.5 to 3 wins above replacement per season throughout his prime.

    My point was that because Gagne played in the era of Ripken, Ozzie, and Barry Larkin, "above average" looked fairly pedestrian by comparision.

    To lend a little more historical context, there are only 12 modern-era shortstops elected by the BBWA to the Hall of Fame. That's almost exactly one per decade. Gagne played almost his entire career with 3 of those 12 guys in the league and in their primes. It set the shortstop bar for Gagne's era ridiculously high, and made it harder to appreciate how good he was despite being nowhere near the players they were.

    Interesting note on the physical similarity. Haven't seen Dozier in person, but my impression was that he is stockier than the whippet-lean Gagne. May have something to do with today's uniforms. Gagne was probably a better athlete with just a bit more power and speed, plus a much better arm. But I'm hoping Dozier regains his minor-league batting form and end up with the better eye at the plate, and that would go a long way toward closing the gap in their values.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
    Oh no, this could revive the "Berrios as Pedro Martinez 2.0" talk.
    Look, I don't want to get anybody excited here, because I still have a lot to prove, and because Pedro Martinez was a great pitcher. But I've recently thrown a baseball, and Pedro Martinez has also thrown baseballs. Just sayin'.


    Kidding, I actually hope the Dozier to Gagne comp becomes a thing.

  3. #43
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    Kidding, I actually hope the Dozier to Gagne comp becomes a thing.
    Yep. If some scout says of a shortstop prospect, "his ceiling is Greg Gagne," probably anyone would say "sign him!"

    As for the height/weight comp, I don't know at what point in a career b-r.com lists the measurements for, and if it was late in Gagne's career (and early in Dozier's perforce) then since Brian already is 5 pounds higher the physical comp may not hold up. Having a relative beanpole like the Florimonster on the roster probably warps my thinking.

  4. #44
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Gagne is one of my all-time favorite Twins. He developed into a very solid ballplayer, but one that never was able to maximize his tools. I don't see Dozier as being as gifted athletically as Gags, but it is possible he could be as good a ballplayer.

  5. #45
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    mlbtraderumors.com says that the Twins are interested in Reid Brignac. From what I've seen, he is a very good fielder with a poor bat. He did have one good year with the Rays when he hit above .250 (.692 OPS in 2010). Worth a shot?

  6. #46
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    mlbtraderumors.com says that the Twins are interested in Reid Brignac. From what I've seen, he is a very good fielder with a poor bat. He did have one good year with the Rays when he hit above .250 (.692 OPS in 2010). Worth a shot?
    Sounds like our kind of guy.

  7. #47
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Brignac would actually be pretty intriguing. Was a BA Top 100 prospect for four straight years and at one point was projected to have a pretty good bat. He's been really, really awful the past couple years and it seems fairly safe to write him off as a bust, but he's still only 27. I'd certainly take his upside over Florimon's.

  8. #48
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Brignac would actually be pretty intriguing. Was a BA Top 100 prospect for four straight years and at one point was projected to have a pretty good bat. He's been really, really awful the past couple years and it seems fairly safe to write him off as a bust, but he's still only 27. I'd certainly take his upside over Florimon's.
    Right. I wonder what happened with him.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer FrodaddyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Right. I wonder what happened with him.
    All the scouting reports I found seem to omit this most important piece of information, but is there any word on whether he can "really get after it out there" and /or "pick it real good"?

  10. #50
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Is he athletic enough?
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  11. #51
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrodaddyG View Post
    All the scouting reports I found seem to omit this most important piece of information, but is there any word on whether he can "really get after it out there" and /or "pick it real good"?
    As long as he shows he wants to play, and handles himself good out there, you'd like to give him a month and see what happens.

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