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Thread: Sickels ranks Twins system #7

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I've always been a fan of how Smith ran the minor league system.
    I think it's fairly safe to say that many of the guys Ryan is now counting on may not have been there if he was in charge when they were acquired.

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Minus trading a first division catcher for a soft throwing closer.
    He also mishandled younger players Garza, Bartlett, and Young. If it wasn't for the international signings we'd all be singing a different tune.

  3. #23
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I've always been a fan of how Smith ran the minor league system.
    Assuming that you are not being factitious, what did you like about Smith's regime?

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star 70charger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    I know it is early but sure do hope that daft offers up FOUR can't miss draft picks. We keep talking about the 3 pitchers but we pick fourth. There are a couple of toolsy Georgia outfielders who are pretty good. Hopefully one of those teams in front of us picks one of them so we can get our hands on one of the top pitchers. I would really like Manaea because he is a lefty and isn't a Boras client (I don't think anyway). If Appel is there I think we have to take him and pay him over slot. He may be the best of the bunch and could be to the majors by 2015.
    Not only is this way premature, but why the hell would you pay Appel over slot? He's a senior in college. Where's he gonna go? Indy?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 70charger View Post
    Not only is this way premature, but why the hell would you pay Appel over slot? He's a senior in college. Where's he gonna go? Indy?
    St Paul Saints

  6. #26
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Minus trading a first division catcher for a soft throwing closer.
    I consider that a mishandling of the major league roster.

  7. #27
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    Assuming that you are not being factitious, what did you like about Smith's regime?
    Smith went hard after Sano when everyone was skeptical that the Twins would be competitive in the international market. Now, the Twins have an elite prospect due to Smith opening the checkbook and allowing the scouting department to go after a guy they really wanted.

    Would JR have done the same thing? It's possible but there's nothing in his previous tenure or his current tenure to believe that's the case. That's what I liked about Smith. He wasn't afraid to go hard after the international market and make a real splash in an attempt to improve the franchise. He also drafted what many consider to be the Twins' third best prospect, Hicks. He also drafted Gibson, a ballsy but smart move after Kyle had dropped way down the list after breaking his arm (I think it was his arm). People seem to forget that the Twins minor league system improved (by a lot) under Smith's tenure as GM. It was under Ryan that the Twins were left in a spot where Nick Blackburn was a "top prospect" (though it was under Ryan that the Twins picked up Arcia). The Twins farm was really bad in 2007/2008 and its current strength is largely due to the work of Bill Smith, not Terry Ryan. Most of the guys we're excited about right now were acquisitions under Smith's stewardship.

    On the other hand, outside of the 2009/2010 offseason, Smith's handling of the Major League roster was abominable. Trading the Twins' two best pitchers before the 2008 season, moving Hardy for Hoey, Nishioka, etc... Nearly every move was a disaster. The Capps/Ramos trade was bad but it wasn't even close to Smith's worst move as GM. The Twins got some quality time out of Capps, more than they can say about Hoey, Nishioka, and the pile of garbage they got in return for Santana.

  8. #28
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    I know it is early but sure do hope that daft offers up FOUR can't miss draft picks. We keep talking about the 3 pitchers but we pick fourth. There are a couple of toolsy Georgia outfielders who are pretty good. Hopefully one of those teams in front of us picks one of them so we can get our hands on one of the top pitchers. I would really like Manaea because he is a lefty and isn't a Boras client (I don't think anyway). If Appel is there I think we have to take him and pay him over slot. He may be the best of the bunch and could be to the majors by 2015.
    This org is overflowing with toolsy OFers... I'd be OK with a college toolsy MI or a P, but another outfielder would be down right stupid. There won't be 4 strasburgs in this draft. Once you get to the 4 pick, there will be a number of similar type players, so spare me BPA...

  9. #29
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    More on the farm system. In his fangraphs chat today, Mike Newman was asked:

    Regarding the AL Central, which team do you think has the best prospects, which has the worst?

    12:14
    Mike Newman:
    Worst is still the Chicago White Sox and will continue to be for the near future at least. As for the best, Minnesota hands down. They have a ton of talent in the low minors and traded for a bunch more. It's a sneaky good system right now.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A Steve Lein's Avatar
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    Another snippet from Mike Newman on maybe my favorite Twins prospect:

    "Comment From Fred

    Your thoughts on Max Kepler? Do you think a breakout season coming off a breakout season is in the cards for him?

    1:26
    Mike Newman:
    I would not make a top-100 list without Max Kepler in it. Very nice player with an above average skill set across the board. He's a good bet to break out in 2013."

    And he likes Kepler more than Bubba Starling of the Royals.
    Scouting Report: Tools - Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)
    Spring Training Regular since 2011.

  11. #31
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    More on the farm system. In his fangraphs chat today, Mike Newman was asked:

    Regarding the AL Central, which team do you think has the best prospects, which has the worst?

    12:14
    Mike Newman:
    Worst is still the Chicago White Sox and will continue to be for the near future at least. As for the best, Minnesota hands down. They have a ton of talent in the low minors and traded for a bunch more. It's a sneaky good system right now.
    High praise. I happen to agree with his "sneaky good" assessment. The system could absolutely use more pitching but when you have guys like Kepler barely breaking the top ten on some lists, you have a good ****ing farm system.

    If Berrios and one of Meyer/May break out this season and anything good happens with one of the college arms, this is a top five system even if you remove Gibson and Hicks as they transition into the majors.

  12. #32
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Encouraging news, love the make-up of some of these hitters. Smith's aggressiveness still could pay a lot of positive dividends.
    As frustrated as I was with some aspects of Smith's tenure, he oversaw the biggest international spending spree in franchise history during a stretch in 2009, throwing big money at Sano, Kepler and Polanco. That play is looking really smart right now, and will look genius if Polanco has another year like his last one.

  13. #33
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    As frustrated as I was with some aspects of Smith's tenure, he oversaw the biggest international spending spree in franchise history during a stretch in 2009, throwing big money at Sano, Kepler and Polanco. That play is looking really smart right now, and will look genius if Polanco has another year like his last one.
    Yeah, when you look at the future of this team his aggressive approach in the international market and his willingness to target players that had escaped us under Ryan looks like the foundation for everything we hope for. We can only hope that didn't go unnoticed by Ryan.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Yeah, when you look at the future of this team his aggressive approach in the international market and his willingness to target players that had escaped us under Ryan looks like the foundation for everything we hope for. We can only hope that didn't go unnoticed by Ryan.
    Except that, if you believe what's being tweeted out there, the Twins- despite having the biggest obvious need for a SS in all of MLB, and sooner rather than later- have already bowed out of the Diaz hunt because, nothwithstanding cutting $40M in the last 2 seasons with more $$ likely cut in 2014, they somehow can't afford to play in that game.

  15. #35
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Except that, if you believe what's being tweeted out there, the Twins- despite having the biggest obvious need for a SS in all of MLB, and sooner rather than later- have already bowed out of the Diaz hunt because, nothwithstanding cutting $40M in the last 2 seasons with more $$ likely cut in 2014, they somehow can't afford to play in that game.
    He's not counted under an international signing? I want to wait and see what he is signed for, but that would be another blow as a Twins fan if indeed Diaz signed elsewhere.

  16. #36
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    He's not counted under an international signing? I want to wait and see what he is signed for, but that would be another blow as a Twins fan if indeed Diaz signed elsewhere.
    Definitely, but let's not classify him under "international" quite yet. The guy could be looking at $10-20m while Sano got what, $3.5m? The fact that the Cuban kids are being treated differently makes them a much bigger risk and they will require a much bigger payday to acquire. While I'd love to see Diaz come to the Twins, I'm not so crazy about the pricetag that could follow him here.

  17. #37
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Definitely, but let's not classify him under "international" quite yet. The guy could be looking at $10-20m while Sano got what, $3.5m? The fact that the Cuban kids are being treated differently makes them a much bigger risk and they will require a much bigger payday to acquire. While I'd love to see Diaz come to the Twins, I'm not so crazy about the pricetag that could follow him here.
    Well that's why I was curious if it was sorted out for what he qualified under. I'm ok with the team being a bit gunshy about handing tens of millions to an unproven player, but I hope they don't bow out before prices get absurd.

  18. #38
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    No one expects Ryan to sign expensive players.....Smiths biggest legacy was his willingness to do so. But Ryan will get all the credit for rebuilding the twins when sano and Kepler are up.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Definitely, but let's not classify him under "international" quite yet. The guy could be looking at $10-20m while Sano got what, $3.5m? The fact that the Cuban kids are being treated differently makes them a much bigger risk and they will require a much bigger payday to acquire. While I'd love to see Diaz come to the Twins, I'm not so crazy about the pricetag that could follow him here.
    If his ceiling is high enough, he would be a better value even at 4/20 than what the Twins could pick up in the free agent market. Compared to what the Twins have available the next two years, at 10 million it would be a steal. His OPS in the high level of cuban leagues was .845 for his career, so he might hit at the mlb level

  20. #40
    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Based on Cespedas and Puig's contract, plus Diaz's premium defensive position, you're probably looking at six or so years at $7 or $8 million annually. Cespedas' successful year and the international cap omitting Cubans has Diaz in line for a huge payday. I won't be overly disappointed if/when the Twins quit bidding.

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