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Thread: Baltimore Sun's Connelly Thinks Saunders Isn't Winding Up In Minnesota

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    Owner All-Star Parker Hageman's Avatar
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    Baltimore Sun's Connelly Thinks Saunders Isn't Winding Up In Minnesota

    Last week, 1500ESPN's Darren Wolfson revealed that the Twins are waiting on Joe Saunders's camp to respond to a one-year contract offer. Now, Orioles beat writer from the Baltimore Sun, Dan Connelly, writes that he believes that if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract, he will likely stay in Baltimore or leave somewhere else for an "eye-brow raising amount of money".

    Furthermore, Connelly reports that his sources say that Saunders has a two-year deal worth $15 million on the table. In addition to the Twins, the Mets and the Mariners have been connected to the left-hander.

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    Senior Member Triple-A mcrow's Avatar
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    At this point I don't see the value in having to commit to Saunders for multiple years. Very mediocre starter over 30 so offering multiple years for a rebuilding team would seem like a bad idea. Maybe you give him 2 years if the price is right but that's it.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    We have so many pitchers showing up already that unless the Twins are going to sign a genuine impact pitcher I see no point.
    It's just adding one more log to a bonfire.

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    If Saunders has a 2/15 offer out there then either
    1. his agent has an offer out there for one year that f they extended it to a 2 year deal at the same pay rate it would be a better deal
    2. they think he has more value
    or
    3. he does not want to go to the team with the two year offer.

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    So, we DON"T want a pitcher who is gonna give us 180+ innings with an ERA+ of 100 or higher? That'd make him, arguably, our best starter.

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    If Saunders has a 2/15 offer out there then either
    1. his agent has an offer out there for one year that f they extended it to a 2 year deal at the same pay rate it would be a better deal
    2. they think he has more value
    or
    3. he does not want to go to the team with the two year offer.
    Yeah, the quoted article doesn't quite make sense to say "if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract" and then go on to mention a two-year $15M deal is in the palm of his hand. At his age, he'd almost surely take the sure $15M, than gamble with (say) a one-year $10M deal if one were offered. Unless it's a team he just won't go to. Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of New York.

    The Twins' 40-man is full. I was for signing Saunders until I realized they would have to expose one of these future Hall-of-Famers to a waiver claim. Can't take that chance.

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    Senior Member Triple-A mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    So, we DON"T want a pitcher who is gonna give us 180+ innings with an ERA+ of 100 or higher? That'd make him, arguably, our best starter.
    As always it depends on the price. For $7.5M per for more than 2 years.....no.

    If the Twins were a legit playoff contender and it is a win now sort of season then maybe to do it but the Twins are better served seeing what they have in some of the younger pitchers. If the younger pitchers don't show us much then maybe to look for more of a staff Ace in FA/Trade next year who is young.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    As always it depends on the price. For $7.5M per for more than 2 years.....no.

    If the Twins were a legit playoff contender and it is a win now sort of season then maybe to do it but the Twins are better served seeing what they have in some of the younger pitchers. If the younger pitchers don't show us much then maybe to look for more of a staff Ace in FA/Trade next year who is young.
    How will that money hurt us this year, or next year, or heck even 2015? What else are they going to do with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Yeah, the quoted article doesn't quite make sense to say "if Saunders is limited to a one-year contract" and then go on to mention a two-year $15M deal is in the palm of his hand. At his age, he'd almost surely take the sure $15M, than gamble with (say) a one-year $10M deal if one were offered. Unless it's a team he just won't go to. Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of New York.

    The Twins' 40-man is full. I was for signing Saunders until I realized they would have to expose one of these future Hall-of-Famers to a waiver claim. Can't take that chance.
    Isnt Drew Butrea on the 40 man roster?
    Isnt he just a waste of space?
    Who would claim him?

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    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    If Saunders chooses the Twins, I will shave my head. He is from northern Virginia, and Baltimore would surely give him a comparable one year deal, probably with an option for two. Jair Jurrjens is gonna excel again for the Orioles (my prediction) and outshine anything the Twins brain trust signed in their dumpster diving.

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    Senior Member Triple-A mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    How will that money hurt us this year, or next year, or heck even 2015? What else are they going to do with it?
    IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.

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    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Isnt Drew Butrea on the 40 man roster?
    Isnt he just a waste of space?
    Who would claim him?
    Sorry, I thought saying "future Hall-of-Famers" would make clear my actual view. The Twins seem to be in a funny position with their 40-man, full of players much much much too valuable to expose to a waiver claim, yet not valuable enough to flip for a decent A-ball prospect of some kind if you wanted to make room for a free agent signing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.
    I'm with you about not going 3, but nothing I have read suggests that that would be necessary. Since I don't believe 2014 is a year of genuine contention for a World Series title, it's fine with me to commit to a Joe Saunders through that year, to get us to 2015 when the kids can have a go at it. You can't let attendance plummet with 90-loss teams two more years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.
    Sigh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.
    Further hamstring? It'd put our payroll at 87M this year...with over 20M coming off the books next year and an additional 10M coming off in 2015. Those players being replaced by pre-arbitration players.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 01-29-2013 at 12:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line. What if there are some FA in the Twins sights next year or in 2015 and we have a useless (not saying Saunders is useless now) Saunders on the roster with a 3 year $23M contract? We all know the Twins budget will never be huge whether we think it should be or not so if you'd like to further hamstring the team with $7-$8m per year for 3+ years to Saunders then go ahead.
    That's why we have Correria at $5.5 million next season...with Worley and Diamond on staff, and Hendriks and Gibson waiting to pitch fultime, and maybe May, Meyer, Hermsen and Wimmers looking for a roster spot, too. Hope Correria has some takers after his 2013 performance.

    Sauncers still isn't THAT expensive. He breathes and throws left-handed. he has a decent track record. He can offer you a bonafide veteran presence and eat innings. I would rather be looking at Sauncers, for even $7-8 million, as a back pof the rotation starter and tradebait this year or next, provided he doesn't pull a Capps and Pavano on us.\
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    My issue with signing Saunders to multiple years mostly has to do with the fact that the front office could use it as an excuse to neglect the free agent pitching markent next off season. Though the 2014 pitching crop doesn't look strong at the moment, things could change. If there is a decent chance that the Twins will point to Saunders' salary and roster spot and say they can't afford the space or the money when there is a legit better option on the market who the Twins had a shot at snagging, I don't want Saunders.

    I realize that neather salary or roster spots should be a concern, but I don't want the front office to have any excuses for neglecting the rotation next year either. Additionally, I'd hate for the Twins to sign Saunders and have the front office crow about how well they did with free agency this off season. Signing another back-of-the rotation starter is not impressive and I'd hate for the front office to pat themselves on the back about doing so. They need to clean house and in my opinion, their inactivity is the best shot at getting that accomplished. I'd hate for them to point to Saunders and say "We tried!" when in fact they clearly didn't.

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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    IMO, regardless of the fiancial situation of the team you don't over spend and over commit to players unless there's really something on the line.
    The reputation of the team, declining attendance, and the downward spiral of payroll. Fielding a better team and winning more games is sorely needed.

    To the "hamstringing" portion of your comment, does that ground really need covering again? Have you looked at the payroll obligations in the future?
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    The reputation of the team, declining attendance, and the downward spiral of payroll. Fielding a better team and winning more games is sorely needed.

    To the "hamstringing" portion of your comment, does that ground really need covering again? Have you looked at the payroll obligations in the future?
    Sign Punto to a three year deal! He's a gamer and a winner and plays the game the right way!!!!!!111!!

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    Senior Member Triple-A mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Further hamstring? It'd put our payroll at 87M this year...with over 20M coming off the books next year and an additional 10M coming off in 2015. Those players being replaced by pre-arbitration players.
    You guys really need to read what I said.

    We know that the Twins will be back to "managing" the budget. So while I think there is more money to be spend who knows what the front office thinks. I'm guessing they're not going be spending over $90M for a while which puts them in the middle of the league. If you have $20m coming off the books next year, $7-$8M is over 1/3 of that.

    Mourneau will be a FA, you might want to keep him around if this season goes well. Maybe there are better options to be had in 2014-2015 than Suanders. If you keep Morneau because he had a big year, and have Saunders on $8M you pretty well have decided not to do much in FA signings because the Twins are not going to be going to $100M+ any time soon.

    So you have to make these signings figuring that they'll looking for a payroll of $80-$90M the next year or two. So if we say they don't resign Morneau and drop Blackburn and Casilla they will have something like $21-$22M "off the books". Seems to me that counting on the Twins getting rid of Morneau isn't wise. The Twins seem fairly loyal to him and I think barring a total meltdown this year like he had the past two there's no way they don't resign him unless the salary he demands gets huge.

    All I'm saying is that Saunders may not fit the longterm goals of the team and if you have to commit to him for 3+ years and $24M I'm not sure it's really that great of signing. He may help this year but personally I would rather see some younger pitchers see some MLB time so we can see what the Twins have for the future. We have Gibson and some other younger pitchers that we need to find out about so the Twins can move forward. They have a lot of arms showing up at ST this year and I can't see where Saunders will be a sure to be significantly better than some of the other options they have.

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