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Thread: Reusse: Optimistic About 2013 Twins

  1. #61
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I'm hearing a lot about how the Twins shouldn't be expected to improve offensively this year. Point me to a position other than LF where they are unlikely to improve or maintain. I'm not seeing it.
    First, this team has all but abandoned any speed in its game. Given the home ballpark plays best to right-handed slugging and gap-and-run players - the team has only two hitters that fit well into either of those categories. (One of which, in Plouffe, remains with question marks)

    Just position by position - LF is likely a dip, CF doesn't even have someone manning it at this point and at least had a quality player there last year, RF is probably a wash with different skill sets and a dramatic defensive drop-off, SS/2B is at least as bad with minimal hope to improve, Plouffe is a huge mystery, Doumit was unusually healthy, and we got a lot of ABs from Morneau and Mauer which could be seen as good fortune.

    I like Parmalee and I'd be a betting man Benson pulls a Span on us, but even then I have serious doubts about a slow-footed team in a big stadium.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    First, this team has all but abandoned any speed in its game. Given the home ballpark plays best to right-handed slugging and gap-and-run players - the team has only two hitters that fit well into either of those categories. (One of which, in Plouffe, remains with question marks)

    Just position by position - LF is likely a dip, CF doesn't even have someone manning it at this point and at least had a quality player there last year, RF is probably a wash with different skill sets and a dramatic defensive drop-off, SS/2B is at least as bad with minimal hope to improve, Plouffe is a huge mystery, Doumit was unusually healthy, and we got a lot of ABs from Morneau and Mauer which could be seen as good fortune.

    I like Parmalee and I'd be a betting man Benson pulls a Span on us, but even then I have serious doubts about a slow-footed team in a big stadium.
    Benson has some speed...he's quite fast...covers a lot of ground. Just sayin'

  3. #63
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Not only "can" he hit like **** at the bottom of the order, he most likely will.


    Yay!
    Alright... Let's go with... .225... Let's live a little!!!

  4. #64
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Alright... Let's go with... .225... Let's live a little!!!
    You optimists and your silly half-full glasses.


    .223, that's as high as I'll go!
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  5. #65
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    You optimists and your silly half-full glasses.


    .223, that's as high as I'll go!
    Deal... Let's call Florimon tell him his batting average is set so he can focus on D.

    God that was so easy.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I don't know that the rotation is better on paper than it was a year ago, but they'll almost certainly perform better.
    On paper the staff that finished 2011 and was expected to pitch in 2012 is probably better than the 2013 staff on paper. Old age and injuries took a toll. I will never understand what happened to Liriano. As the season plays out the fans will learn what improvewments and return to health. A real optimist could think that at the end of the year, Worley, Diamond, Pelfrey and Gibson are pretty darn good pitchers. Harden could be a bonus. Hendricks a bonus
    Last edited by old nurse; 01-28-2013 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #67
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    On paper the staff that finished 2011 and was expected to pitch in 2012 is probably better than the 2013 staff on paper. Old age and injuries took a toll. I will never understand what happened to Liriano. As the season plays out the fans will learn what improvewments and return to health. A real optimist could think that at the end of the year, Worley, Diamond, Pelfrey and Gibson are pretty darn good pitchers. Harden could be a bonus. Hendricks a bonus
    Liriano doesn't understand what happened to Liriano.

  8. #68
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Benson has some speed...he's quite fast...covers a lot of ground. Just sayin'
    Yeah, but first he has to make the team and get on base. I think anyone projecting rookies is just taking a wild guess, good or bad. I like Benson a lot, really looking forward to seeing his at-bats, even in ST.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Yeah, but first he has to make the team and get on base. I think anyone projecting rookies is just taking a wild guess, good or bad. I like Benson a lot, really looking forward to seeing his at-bats, even in ST.
    Yeah, I'm a fan of his as well.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    I'm hearing a lot about how the Twins shouldn't be expected to improve offensively this year. Point me to a position other than LF where they are unlikely to improve or maintain. I'm not seeing it.
    My point was overall whether or not the improvements in the lineup would be able to replace what was lost both defensively and offensively. I'd agree that the Twins should be better offensively next year, but as many pointed out, there are question marks.

    Just offensively, though, The two biggest are Parmelee and whomever plays CF. Parmelee should definitely be a plus, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume CF won't be an upgrade offensively.

    Florimon's career minor league OPS is 100 points less than Dozier and even Doziers awful season was better than Florimon's MLB at bats.

    So, I don't think it's too big of a jump to say Dozier/Carrol/Casilla getting most of the at-bats might actually be better than Florimon/Carroll/Escobar (especially if Escobar is getting more ABs than Carroll) as frightening as that sounds.

    In total that leaves 4 of 8 positions (both MI spots, CF, and LF) which, at least IMO, have a good chance to be worse than last season. If Parmelee has the season everyone hopes, he'll likely make up for a good chunk of that, provided they're not too far behind last year's numbers.

    On the other hand if CF ends up being better then this year's lineup is dramatically improved.

    You did a great article last season on the starting pitching involving coin tosses, and while I think the offense will improve it does rest on some coin tosses. If a couple come up heads, the offense could be dramatically better.
    Last edited by Alex; 01-28-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Parmelee is a better hitter than Revere. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. Their offensive value might be a little closer when you consider Revere's base-stealing ability but still. Parmelee was better in the minors and has been better in early MLB exposure. He's certainly a better fit in an offensive position like RF.


    Par for the course.
    The extended thread about the top of the order and possibly moving Mauer up in the order, examines the Twins 2013 alternatives to last year's 9,1 and 2 hitters. The Twins had the the third-best number 9 slot numbers (.303 OBP) and were in the upper half to upper third when especially emphasising Span and Revere's numbers, respectively, in the 1 and 2 slots. I see little to no evidence that the club's replacements this year that can come anywhere close to matching the 2012 numbers.

    I further suggested that it was well worth the experiment to go all AL East-style and experiment with Parmelee in the #2 hole. This is really the only shot that this team has at matching even close to the performance that the club got in just one of the three plate-setting spots in the order.
    Last edited by jokin; 01-29-2013 at 12:06 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Sorry, as a lifelong Twins fan, I'll be here per usual, pointing out imcompetence and hypocrisy and demanding that changes be made.

    Now go back, shut your eyes real tight, and start in again on your Make-A-Wish dreaming campaign.
    This from the person who stated they could get Bogaerts from the Red Sox for a Twins veteran and a prospect. Are you really that two faced? Are you any relation to EOR from Winne the Pooh?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    A real optimist could think that at the end of the year, Worley, Diamond, Pelfrey and Gibson are pretty darn good pitchers.
    I think I saw what you did there...

  14. #74
    Senior Member Double-A shs_59's Avatar
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    Well going off strictly fangraphs from 2012 / (2011) for Pelfrey, Harden.

    They think Diamond is a #2 starter, Joe Saunders (if we sign him) a #3 starter and Worley and Correa #4 types. Worley could be a #3.

    Plug in Pelfrey/ Gibson/ Harden / Hendriks into the 5th spot. and suddenly The Twins could approach winning 70-75 games, maybe ehh. ?

    Problem is to get to .500 or better you need an ace (J. Shields, healthy S. Baker, A. Sanchez, 2008 Liriano, R. Dempster, R.A. Dickey) things the Twins simply just do not have. (Gibby, Meyer, May, Berrios? maybe one day)

    plus i don't trust our entire middle of the field CF, SS, 2B enough to be too excited for 2013, come 2014 and certainly 2015 i'll be much more enthusiastic. Mastro in CF with Boggs as 4th OF'er, Escobar/ Florimon at SS and Carroll at 2b. (to start with in April)

    I think AAA should look something like this come April:

    OF : Joe Benson, Aaron Hicks, and Evan Bigley
    INF : Diebinson Romero, Brian Dozier, Dinkelman/ Beresford , Collabello
    C : Lehhman or Herrmann. or whoever really.

    SP: Hendriks, Harden, Hermsen, Deduno, DeVries.

    with Arcia, May and Meyer in AA. Assuming Arcia jumping to AAA sometime in May or June. & Hopefully I pray every night long and hard Hicks doesn't get called to majors untill late July/ August/ September.
    Top Twins prospects ? 1.Byron Buxton (OF-A+)
    2.Miguel Sano (3B-AA) 3.Alex Meyer (SP-AA) 4. Kohl Stewart (SP-RK) 5. Nick Gordon (SS-RK) 6. J.O. Berrios (P-A) 7. Josmil Pinto (C-AAA) 8. Eddie Rosario (2B-AA) 9. L. Thorpe (SP-RK) 10. Travis Harrison (3B-A) 11.Kennys Vargas (1B-A+) 12. Trevor May (SP-AA) 13. Jorge Polanco (2B-A) 14. Max Kepler (OF-A) 15. Miguel Sulbaran (SP-A) Just Missed:P Zach Jones, SS Aderlin Mejia, P Stephen Gonsalves, C Stuart Turner.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    This from the person who stated they could get Bogaerts from the Red Sox for a Twins veteran and a prospect. Are you really that two faced? Are you any relation to EOR from Winne the Pooh?
    Don't put words in my mouth. I never said what you said I said.

    Boagaerts was only gettable in a Mauer trade, Genius, oops, I mean, WiseOne... (BTW, you mispelled Eeyore, your brainship)

    The point was. and still is.... that there were 3 other viable options on the Red Sox depth chart obviously available for much less in trade.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Double-A shs_59's Avatar
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    I should say i expect Willingham to regress from 2012.

    possibly Doumit and Maestro also.

    Mauer and Morny are kind of wild-cards

    but hopefully Plouffe, Dozier, and maybe Parmelee all contribute a little more consistently in 2013.

    for pitching we should all pray to our lord and savior neither Diamond, Burton or Perkins regresses.
    Top Twins prospects ? 1.Byron Buxton (OF-A+)
    2.Miguel Sano (3B-AA) 3.Alex Meyer (SP-AA) 4. Kohl Stewart (SP-RK) 5. Nick Gordon (SS-RK) 6. J.O. Berrios (P-A) 7. Josmil Pinto (C-AAA) 8. Eddie Rosario (2B-AA) 9. L. Thorpe (SP-RK) 10. Travis Harrison (3B-A) 11.Kennys Vargas (1B-A+) 12. Trevor May (SP-AA) 13. Jorge Polanco (2B-A) 14. Max Kepler (OF-A) 15. Miguel Sulbaran (SP-A) Just Missed:P Zach Jones, SS Aderlin Mejia, P Stephen Gonsalves, C Stuart Turner.

  17. #77
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shs_59 View Post
    Problem is to get to .500 or better you need an ace (J. Shields, healthy S. Baker, A. Sanchez, 2008 Liriano, R. Dempster, R.A. Dickey
    ? 2008 Liriano was an ace? He threw 76 innings in the majors, and a good chunk of them were horrible. The ace of that staff was... I dunno, Blackburn? Sort of seems to disprove your whole point here.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth. I never said what you said I said.

    Boagaerts was only gettable in a Mauer trade, Genius, oops, I mean, WiseOne... (BTW, you mispelled Eeyore, your brainship)

    The point was. and still is.... that there were 3 other viable options on the Red Sox depth chart obviously available for much less in trade.
    Nice changing what you say and want. Nowhere in the other thread did you say Mauer. Do you also want the Twins to have a $20 million payroll and Butera as the starting catcher? What happened to win as many games as you can? Lower minor leaguers in the Boston system ready to play this year? And you call what other people post Make-a-Wish. LOL
    Last edited by old nurse; 01-29-2013 at 08:29 AM.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I think I saw what you did there...
    Note that there were only 4 starters mentioned. It would be holding out too much hope that Harden will be all the way back. The other guy will probably be a pretty darn pitcher

  20. #80
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    What shocked me coming from Ruesse was in the discussion he had with Mackey about the article. The one tidbit that surprised me was a statement about Arcia. I knew he had potential, but Ruesse said he had talked to several scouts who projected Arcia's potential to Albert Pujols. I couldn't believe that - now that would be a nice addition to the lineup.

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