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Thread: Source: Twins have 1 yr offer to Saunders; never made offer to Marcum

  1. #161
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    *massacre of strawmen*
    Number of people that have claimed free agency is how to win a World Series:


    0
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  2. #162
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    This is a dumb argument. How often does a team other than the Yankees use Free Agency to win a World Series.
    Who said anything about the World Series? Most of us are just talking about not being out of contention in the Central by June, is that too much to ask?

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm not calling for his head, never did. Most aren't. The problem is, in FA, if you aren't at least willing to offer "as much" you won't even be in the conversation. That's all anyone is asking - be competitive in FA because financially they can afford to do so. Expressing frustration with their unwillingness to do so is perfectly fine.
    Sorry to disagree , it is here that most think Terry is doing a good job , else where they and I are in fact calling for his head....
    most do not believe Mr. Ryan or Mr. Gardenhire can acquire or modivate players to a world series...

  4. #164
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Sorry to disagree , it is here that most think Terry is doing a good job , else where they and I are in fact calling for his head....most do not believe Mr. Ryan or Mr. Gardenhire can acquire or modivate players to a world series...
    There are many things to like about Ryan, but if he's going to be this averse to utilizing FA to help improve his ballclub, then I think his time has come and gone for this franchise. I'll give him a little more time before I get frustrated enough to call for a change. But I am certainly concerned about being this awful at utilizing such an important part of building a team.

    I think the role Gardenhire has is pretty moot overall, I don't worry too much about his influence.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    True - But my question is how are you going to make Ownership and FO listen differently this year as opposed to the last 28 years? Why should they take your concerns seriously in 2013? That's like the parent who tells his kid to "clean your room" and he never does. What do you need to do differently (expressing yourself) to make FO hear you? I'm about results. If expressing yourself negatively for 28 years is your plan when there is no change happening - Then yes - I don't get it? I want new ideas to get my point heard. Like telling my kid your grounded until that room is cleaned. And following through!!! I'm about results. Maybe you have a following - Maybe you don't
    the twins llc are a sucsess if your the Pohlads, there making vucue dinero . only way to change there thinking is to stop paying for there product....

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    All great GMs think outside the box. Give TR a chance to fail his way or succeed. He already made a change in his draft philosophy and is listening to Saber guys in the FO. Give him a couple a years to build something. See if you still suck by mid season in 2014 at least.
    He didnt listen to his SABR guys on Kevin Correia did he?

  7. #167
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Even with the top guys on the market, we would still suck for at least the next two seasons. The Rays and Nationals did things the right way.
    Look at the 69 win Nats of 2010, compared to the 80 win 2011 team and the 96 win team last year. They had a couple impact farm guys in Strasburg and Harper, sure, but the core of those teams are the same. The biggest difference is that they upgraded their rotation with Gio and Edwin Jackson last year via free agency and mortgaging their farm.

    If you look at the Twins teams who were competitive in the 00s, the core of Cuddyer, Kubel, Mauer, Morneau, Span... the core today is not much different. Certainly Willingham and Doumit are strong substitutes for Cuddyer and Kubel. Plouffe could be our best 3b since Koskie.

    If those guys all stay healthy, and one or two farm guys are able to have an impact (Hicks, Benson, Mastro, Parmelee), this team is not that far away from contention.

    I think everyone wanting to kick the rock down the road needs to consider that the Twins window for contending may very well be closing in 2015 or 2016, not opening.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Look at the 69 win Nats of 2010, compared to the 80 win 2011 team and the 96 win team last year. They had a couple impact farm guys in Strasburg and Harper, sure, but the core of those teams are the same. The biggest difference is that they upgraded their rotation with Gio and Edwin Jackson last year via free agency and mortgaging their farm.

    If you look at the Twins teams who were competitive in the 00s, the core of Cuddyer, Kubel, Mauer, Morneau, Span... the core today is not much different. Certainly Willingham and Doumit are strong substitutes for Cuddyer and Kubel. Plouffe could be our best 3b since Koskie.

    If those guys all stay healthy, and one or two farm guys are able to have an impact (Hicks, Benson, Mastro, Parmelee), this team is not that far away from contention.

    I think everyone wanting to kick the rock down the road needs to consider that the Twins window for contending may very well be closing in 2015 or 2016, not opening.
    Nationals didn't hurt themselves too much when they got Gio..certainly didn't mortgage their farm too bad...and the best prospect they lost they got back already...AJ Cole. And they also have Gio for at least 4 more years...up to 6

  9. #169
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Nationals didn't hurt themselves too much when they got Gio..certainly didn't mortgage their farm too bad...and the best prospect they lost they got back already...AJ Cole. And they also have Gio for at least 4 more years...up to 6
    They also went and signed Werth and Haren to name just two in FA. That comparison by Twerp was ridiculous.

  10. #170
    Senior Member Double-A BrentMpls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    If you renew your season ticket package, you get 10% off your spending on CONcessions or on Twins Stuff. Your Kevin Coreria jrsey will be cheaper than any Twins jersey your purchased on-site last year. Hey, any Liriano jerseys left at Twinsfest, or were they apckaged as twofers with Valencia or Baker jerseys.
    That Pohlad-generous 10% off only applies to certain CONcessions I'm afraid. No details on what that means, but my spidey-sense tells me craft beers wont be on that list, meaning my Surly will still cost me as much as my ticket.

    Didn't see any Frankies, but there were some hot Span and Revere Jerseys in stock.

  11. #171
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Christ, I can't wait for the season to start, these threads are a beat down to read through.

  12. #172
    Senior Member Double-A BrentMpls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_the_twins_fan View Post
    Then there's guys like Joe Mauer, whom I believe wants to stay in Minnesota for the rest of his career.
    For what it is worth, Sid on the Sports Show tonight (which was super creepy and bizarre by having a girl stand in the background, never introduced and silent) said he asked Mauer today about the no-trade clause and Joe says under no circumstances would he waive it.

  13. #173
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    But the nats had to suck first to build a young core. They did supplement their core with werth and edwin jackson. I agree they may not be the best example but we r were they were before they started signing free agents. The twins lineup is going to be worse than it was last year with even worse defense. TR, imo, is building for 2015. Payroll will be wide open even next year. These bargain bin pitchers he has been signing are not for the fans. He is building a strong farm system and signing affordable guys to eat innings. He did pretty well with his signings last year and he will be the busiest gm at tbe trade deadline building for...you guessed it, 2015.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentMpls View Post
    For what it is worth, Sid on the Sports Show tonight (which was super creepy and bizarre by having a girl stand in the background, never introduced and silent) said he asked Mauer today about the no-trade clause and Joe says under no circumstances would he waive it.
    easy to get him to drop it , fire jake and make him the highest ever AAA player , after a couple of weeks of riding the bus he will waive his no trade clause....or constantly pinch hit drew butrea for him hahaha lots of ways to modivate a player to want to leave , and the front office is skilled at this, its getting players to want to come here where they have troubles...

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    But the nats had to suck first to build a young core. They did supplement their core with werth and edwin jackson. I agree they may not be the best example but we r were they were before they started signing free agents. The twins lineup is going to be worse than it was last year with even worse defense. TR, imo, is building for 2015. Payroll will be wide open even next year. These bargain bin pitchers he has been signing are not for the fans. He is building a strong farm system and signing affordable guys to eat innings. He did pretty well with his signings last year and he will be the busiest gm at tbe trade deadline building for...you guessed it, 2015.
    So by signing quality players , and then trading the players for quality prospects, that some how hurts our minor leaques?
    Spend to acquire quality assets , then in turn trade the assets for future assets....adding to our prospects....

  16. #176
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    Joining-in late. No personal attacks either. Yes, I believe there is a long-term plan. Pattern the Twins after the Rays with a fallback position of the Marlins. Winning is not defined the same by everyone.Think of the Twins as if they are a common stock. Some have high-growth potential with high reward potential--but also with high risk. Some have modest growth potential, but have a niche that with tight control can consistently post consistent (but not stellar) positive results. I see much of the discussion based on the assumption that the FO is trying to win the WS, or at least always be in contention to win the AL Central. But that need not be the case. If the plan is to consistently operate with a $60-65MM payroll (assumes there will always be a Mauer-type on the team) and make a run whenever but generally to trade the veterans when their salary increases beyond a threshold (or total payroll beyond a threshold) that may well be defined as "winning" by management. Low-risk, consistent, but unspectactular results.

    Sadly (for fans who want to see a winner every year) that means disassembling the 2010 team piece by piece (except Mauer) and replacing them with low salary players. Expect losing seasons. Expect to hear some yay-rah-rah spin and the like, "...wait until so-and-so gets to the Twins...". Gallons of Kool-Aid will be poured--but several posters have stated that is "fine", they love the Twins whatever and "trust management to make it all right." Such a policy is valid for business--except that wasn't the pitch I heard when the Twins were asking (pretty much demanding) that the public make a very substantial contribution in construction, maintenance, upgrades costs, but also tax concessions. In my mind, they should be spending now to put a better team on the field in 2013 just as promised in their "request" for a new stadium.

  17. #177
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I truly do agree. Now give me your selling point to that FA as a GM. How do you get a matched offer FA to come here? Everyone is getting on TR about what he is not doing. Tell me your conversation as GM (besides money) to getr FA here. Because players do care about family and other things when it comes to FA signing.

    Sell me (I'm Kyle Loshe and you offered 1 million more than next competitor)..........................Why should I pick MN?

    I'm on your side about MN now - I'm just defending TRs challenge. Let's hear your sell as TR/GM.........
    Kyle, Pedro Florimon can make a $%^&in play. Let me tell you. Nothing gets by him. He can $%^&ing pick it. On days you pitch, we'll make sure Jamie Carroll plays 2B. You've seen him in the NL. You know he's a $%%^&& human vacuum. We'll even make sure Escobar is at 3B for you. No Plouffe for you. We'll make sure that hot corner is $%%^& covered, Kyle.

    Now about the outfield...um Gardy's door is super-reinforced steel....but how's $12 million?

    In general there's no great advantage to recruiting FA's to Minnesota, but there's no disadvantage either relative to Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, KC, Cincy, etc. etc. It's a nice city. It's a beautiful brand-new ballpark with great facilities. It's a division that can be won without a miracle (would your rather be Baltimore or Toronto?) Will we get the guys with stars in their eyes who have the Yankees after them? No. Can we convince someone to choose MN over all of the places I've mentioned? Why not?

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    There are many things to like about Ryan, but if he's going to be this averse to utilizing FA to help improve his ballclub, then I think his time has come and gone for this franchise. I'll give him a little more time before I get frustrated enough to call for a change. But I am certainly concerned about being this awful at utilizing such an important part of building a team.

    I think the role Gardenhire has is pretty moot overall, I don't worry too much about his influence.
    I didnt like the fact he returned to his former position , but last year he had an idea of what he wanted to do , and while losing players , he did add some to the team , this year , well its like he just sat and waited ,and did nothing ,except trade 2 major leaque players for a handful of magic beans .. maybe they will work out or maybe they wont , only time will tell , but as for adding to the 2013 team , i dont see much , worely if he is healthy is all i see

  19. #179
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    In general, even in 're-building' you should allocate your resources to put the best product on the field. The only difference is that you want to ensure you're not 'blocking' anyone or tying up resources in future years recklessly. In this regard, TR has failed.

    Could he have gotten Grienke? Probably not. But the fact that it was dismissed as laughable to even consider is bothersome. The Twins could have gone 6/$150. Not saying they should have, but they could afford it. The fact that we still act more like Oakland/Tampa than St. LouisDetroit is not right. We're not the little engine that could anymore.

    Grienke aside, this team can afford a payroll of at least $90 million. The pitching staff was a joke, and much, much more could have been done for it than we have seen so far. Getting Saunders would help. Keeping Baker would have been nice (doesn't preclude going after Pelfrey too). Going after someone like Lannan instead of Corriea. Maybe spending some of the difference/unused $ on an Edwin Jackson. Taking a 'risk' on Marcum instead of Harden. There are many scenarios. But most of them are better than what we got.
    Last edited by howeda7; 01-28-2013 at 12:52 AM.

  20. #180
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotholemike View Post
    The Orioles have moved on. It is unbelievable how many people on this board simply do not do the math or examine the specifics of what other teams are doing/have done. Saunders has only 3 different options left: Seattle, San Diego and Minnesota. I said this previously to all those wannabe GMs who wanted to give Saunders $10M to $12.5M per year for multiple years. BTB, any "major" free agent will avoid the frozen tundra of Minnesota if at all possible. This is reality. Deal with it. It would take a very special free agent to accept a deal with the Twins. Take that to your ice fishing house and smoke it.
    That was a very cold post. And nothing would require a free agent to spend the winter in Minnesota.

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