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Thread: Hicks leading candidate for CF job.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareTwinsFan View Post
    Worry for me is his plate discipline. If he can show that he can lay off the low and outside slider and the high fastball in spring training, then maybe he's ready.

    Sounding more and more like Hunter...

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    The only thing most people are arguing is, whether or not it makes sense to give away a year of service time for a couple of extra weeks with the big club, in a season that is going nowhere fast. Why is this so crazy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    The only thing most people are arguing is, whether or not it makes sense to give away a year of service time for a couple of extra weeks with the big club, in a season that is going nowhere fast. Why is this so crazy?
    That's the argument that makes sense...

  4. #24
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    I'd prefer to wait, not only because of service time but because Hicks has been a slow starter in the past. I'm not convinced this team wouldn't panic if he started with a low BA even if he had a strong OBP. I have a feeling they don't put as much weight in the latter of the two stats.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 01-25-2013 at 04:03 PM.

  5. #25
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    I may be in the minority but I really hope Benson wins the job out of ST. It would create another trade chip at some point if he can succeed and since this seems to be his last real chance....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    I think it's the other way around...if he was good enough to draft that high, it shouldn't take him 6, 7 years to make the show. The kid has never had an OBP below .353 in any pro season. He's a plus defender. It's time.
    The kid gloves treatment that has proven to be a good strategy, for an extra 2 week or possibly a little more time, it won't hurt his long-term value to the team, possibly help him and most definitely, the club, financially---- and--- won't make any difference on his short-term value to the team

  7. #27
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Do what's right for Hicks and his development into a cornerstone of the franchise. Whatever that is, doesn't matter about service time, do it. I trust the Twins on assessing their prospect readiness, it's one of their strongest qualities as an organization.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Hunter would have been waiting a long time...In three of Hicks' five full seasons in the minors, he had OPS of at least .829. Hunter never had a full season in the minors with an OPS in the '800s. Hicks is a former first rounder, #14 overall, with 5 seasons in the minors. Time to take of the damn kid gloves already
    Interesting comparison.

    In AAA at 22 Hunter posted an .891 OPS in around 100 AB. Hunters's first two seasons were not impressive in the majors. His third season he crushed the ball and but still posted an OPS below .800 thanks to poor plate discipline and had an OPS + of 80. It's hard to say what would have happened with more seasoning, but the Twins certainly didn't get much out of his first three seasons.

    Also, it's a minor point but one of Hick's season's above .800 was 45 games in the rookie league.

    Look I'm not saying keep him down for the whole season, and if they start him I certainly hope he does well but some PAs in AAA wouldn't hurt, for multiple reasons.
    Last edited by Alex; 01-25-2013 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Do what's right for Hicks and his development into a cornerstone of the franchise. Whatever that is, doesn't matter about service time, do it. I trust the Twins on assessing their prospect readiness, it's one of their strongest qualities as an organization.

    I don't know. Their assessment of Dozier's readiness and putting Parmelee on the roster to start the season last year didn't work out that well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Interesting comparison.

    In AAA at 22 Hunter posted an .891 OPS in around 100 AB. Hunters's first two seasons were not impressive in the majors. His third season he crushed the ball and but still posted an OPS below .800 thanks to poor plate discipline and had an OPS + of 80. It's hard to say what would have happened with more seasoning, but the Twins certainly didn't get much out of his first three seasons.

    Look I'm not saying keep him down for the whole season, and if they start him I certainly hope he does well but some PAs in AAA wouldn't hurt, for multiple reasons.
    This. This is not so hard, people.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I don't know. Their assessment of Dozier's readiness and putting Parmelee on the roster to start the season last year didn't work out that well.
    Batting .1000 today, Alex.

    The Twins showed they really didn't know what they were doing from opening day last year. Anyone remember, the debate about Willingham in RF or LF and Doumit's adventures in outfielding, Parmelee never getting one single inning rep in the OF at AAA?
    Last edited by jokin; 01-25-2013 at 04:22 PM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    The service time issue really only matters if Hicks becomes a mainstay and the Twins don't sign him to a major league contract by his last year of service.

    If he flops, it doesn't matter that you used up a year of service time. If he lights it up, you can sign him to a contract and you wouldn't have to worry about service time.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    The service time issue really only matters if Hicks becomes a mainstay and the Twins don't sign him to a major league contract by his last year of service.

    If he flops, it doesn't matter that you used up a year of service time. If he lights it up, you can sign him to a contract and you wouldn't have to worry about service time.
    All true, but fiduciarially, this is a decision that must be taken with long-term ramifications fully accounted for, and given the repeated proof of the Twins unwillingness to spend freely, Option One is the only way to go.

  14. #34
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Or he lights it up and takes his services elsewhere.....a year earlier than he would have otherwise.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

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    One other point of reference in comparison of Hicks to Hunter.

    Hunter had 2540 plate appearances in the minors and struck out 446 times. (He walked only 178)

    Hicks has 2110 plate appearances and has struck out 425 times. (Walked 313).

    If Hicks starts the season in the majors, I think he could be very prone to strikeouts. He does have a lot more patience but it would be interesting to see how major league pitching affects his numbers. I think you could see him strike out a ton (maybe 150 times or more) and not walk nearly as much facing the superior pitching of the majors. I still think that his patience will be an asset long term and hope it translates but those K levels should be a concern and will be the major challenge of his transition.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Interesting comparison.

    In AAA at 22 Hunter posted an .891 OPS in around 100 AB. Hunters's first two seasons were not impressive in the majors. His third season he crushed the ball and but still posted an OPS below .800 thanks to poor plate discipline and had an OPS + of 80. It's hard to say what would have happened with more seasoning, but the Twins certainly didn't get much out of his first three seasons.

    Also, it's a minor point but one of Hick's season's above .800 was 45 games in the rookie league.

    Look I'm not saying keep him down for the whole season, and if they start him I certainly hope he does well but some PAs in AAA wouldn't hurt, for multiple reasons.
    Hunter's third season was pretty nice. 27 dingers, 92 RBI, OPS of .784 and an MVP vote or two. My point is this...he was brought up during a time when the rebuilding was going on and we weren't much of a team. He got his feet wet in the bigs, working out the kinks, without really hurting our ability to be contenders cause we weren't there yet. Same situation with Hicks.

    Hicks has done better in the minors that Hunter...and he's a very similar player to Hunter overall. Some of the same weakness, a lot of the same strengths...and we're not going anywhere this season or next. I have no issues waiting to bring him up past the date where we get an extra yar of control, but I don't buy the whole seasoning reason, or whatever. He's had enough time.

    Yes, Hicks is more prone to Ks than Hunter was in the minors, but he also gets on base at a much better clip...which is kind of what we need.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 01-25-2013 at 04:46 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    One other point of reference in comparison of Hicks to Hunter.

    Hunter had 2540 plate appearances in the minors and struck out 446 times. (He walked only 178)

    Hicks has 2110 plate appearances and has struck out 425 times. (Walked 313).

    If Hicks starts the season in the majors, I think he could be very prone to strikeouts. He does have a lot more patience but it would be interesting to see how major league pitching affects his numbers. I think you could see him strike out a ton (maybe 150 times or more) and not walk nearly as much facing the superior pitching of the majors. I still think that his patience will be an asset long term and hope it translates but those K levels should be a concern and will be the major challenge of his transition.
    'If Hicks starts the season in the majors, I think he could be very prone to strikeouts. '

    One month in the minors won't fix that...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Hunter's third season was pretty nice. 27 dingers, 92 RBI, OPS of .784 and an MVP vote or two. My point is this...he was brought up during a time when the rebuilding was going on and we weren't much of a team. He got his feet wet in the bigs, working out the kinks, without really hurting our ability to be contenders cause we weren't there yet. Same situation with Hicks.

    Hicks has done better in the minors that Hunter...and he's a very simliar player to Hunter overall. Some of the same weakness, a lot of the same strengths...and we're not going anywhere. I have no issues waiting to bring him up past the date where we get an extra yar of control, but I don't buy the whole seasoning reason, or whatever. He's had enough time.

    Yes, Hicks is more prone to Ks than Hunter was in the minors, but he also gets on base at a much better clip...which is kind of what we need.
    Puck, you're not implying with the "whole seasoning" thing that the opposing view suggests that the club should wait until September call-up for more "seasoning", just to "be sure"? He made a major hurdle last year, the FO offseason moves indicates that they have confidence that Hicks is on the verge of making the jump to starting CFer. What's wrong with fine-tuning the move fiduciarilly- and hopefully working out some of the aforementioned kinds that Alex mentioned with a brief stint at Roc. and lowering the pressure threshold and spotlight of an opening day start?
    Last edited by jokin; 01-25-2013 at 04:53 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'If Hicks starts the season in the majors, I think he could be very prone to strikeouts. '

    One month in the minors won't fix that...
    No, it won't, but if he does well at AAA, it's more likely that those ratios are going to hold up in the majors. If he struggles more at AAA with those ratios, it would be a sign that he's not ready. I think it's tough to tell if a hitter like him is ready from AA stats, and frankly, I'm not confident in the Twins scouts right now.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'If Hicks starts the season in the majors, I think he could be very prone to strikeouts. '

    One month in the minors won't fix that...
    No it won't, but it's still just one more area he can work on without the glaring spotlight for 50-100 AAA ABs. Can't hurt him or the Twins in missing him in the lineup for a few games and any weaknesses to address will stay a work in progress in the majors

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