Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 296

Thread: Marcum To Mets

  1. #221
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    4,043
    Like
    1,767
    Liked 1,241 Times in 494 Posts
    I've got to hand it to the Twins front office, they're apparently the only team in the history of free agency that's been capable of keeping every single quality free agent offer a secret.

    They're special, and every free agent hates Minnesota, it's the only reasonable conclusion.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  2. #222
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,710
    Like
    8
    Liked 25 Times in 13 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The problem with this analysis is the greater risk that Ryan has already taken on deals much less certain to work out.
    I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

    I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.

  3. #223
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
    Posts
    3,519
    Like
    846
    Liked 1,184 Times in 631 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Parise and Sutter to the Wild ring a bell?
    Nitpick, it's Suter, but you're right.

    Odd that they were both offered a fair amount of money as well, don't you think?

  4. #224
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    196
    Like
    2
    Liked 54 Times in 30 Posts
    Oops. Typo aside, the Wild dispel that argument of his very quickly.

  5. #225
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
    Posts
    2,755
    Like
    640
    Liked 380 Times in 212 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Even if his health is extremely suspect, which I believe it is, what Is there stopping the Twins, or any other GM, offering, a contract with multiple clauses, comparable to the Delmon deal.

    $5m signing bonus
    4 starts in April = first incentive kicks in
    4 starts in May = 2nd incentive kicks in
    etc.

    or something along those lines.

  6. #226
    Member Single-A
    Posts
    90
    Like
    3
    Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Carl Pavano has a ruptured spleen from shoveling snow in his driveway in Vermont...if i was TR i would offer 3 million..there you go 1 more starter for this year

  7. #227
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    522
    Like
    0
    Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    33
    St. Louis was a bad example.

    1) Does everyone truly believe that the only reason you haven't signed a Top flight free agent is because you haven't offered, at least, equal money as other teams have offered?
    2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
    3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?
    4) Is it your opinion that FO has never offered equal money to a Top FA over the last 20+ years?
    5) Why is Morris the last to accept?

    I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?

  8. #228
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    This is like the age old argument, what came first, the chicken or the egg...

  9. #229
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,535
    Like
    61
    Liked 340 Times in 216 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

    I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.
    Couldn't you say the same about the Mets and Pelfrey? Why did Ryan sign him then?

  10. #230
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    522
    Like
    0
    Liked 22 Times in 12 Posts
    Blog Entries
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    I've got to hand it to the Twins front office, they're apparently the only team in the history of free agency that's been capable of keeping every single quality free agent offer a secret.

    They're special, and every free agent hates Minnesota, it's the only reasonable conclusion.
    Or the various owners over the last 20+ just don't match offers. I'd like to think it's a combination of both personally.


  11. #231
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
    Posts
    1,742
    Like
    58
    Liked 105 Times in 51 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    This is like the age old argument, what came first, the chicken or the egg...
    It's the chicken. Actuality is logically prior to potency.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Now your telling us who to follow?
    how to be fans?
    If you want to take my statement out of context sure.

  13. #233
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
    Posts
    2,756
    Like
    1,582
    Liked 1,604 Times in 799 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?
    Probably for the same reason we have so much trouble attracting Fortune 1000 and Forbes 100 companies....

  14. #234
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,535
    Like
    61
    Liked 340 Times in 216 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    St. Louis was a bad example.

    2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
    3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?
    This is the crux of your problem. Your view of overpaying is being top dollar. And yes, in most instances, you have to be top dollar to get the free agent no matter which team is offering the contract. The agent's job is letting each team know (or conning them into believing) what is being offerd by the other clubs so that one of them will go just a little bit higher.

    Terry Ryan's view of overpaying is when the pitcher signs a contract for anything more than what Ryan thinks he's worth. Which happens to be nearly every single pitcher who has ever worn a MLB uniform.

  15. #235
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,928
    Like
    243
    Liked 183 Times in 106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The problem with this analysis is the greater risk that Ryan has already taken on deals much less certain to work out.
    You can't pretend to know whether Marcum is any less of a health risk than Pelfry or Harden. You just don't know.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Walters, Deduno, De Vries, et al should not be blocking any legitimate prospects. They're AAA filler, nothing more. They're the type of guy you use in a pinch and discard the moment something better comes along.

    Besides, the Twins don't have any depth at AA, either. This is a non-issue.
    Not how the game works in mid market baseball and you know that. The Twins don't just jettison folks. I have often wondered why someone has stayed at a level too long and not gotten a shot at moving up. Lotsa times it's a philosophical issue and many others there simply isn't enough room at the next level.

  17. #237
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,580
    Like
    828
    Liked 815 Times in 518 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

    I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.
    I think it's even more telling that the Mets passed on Pelfrey!

    Marcum could be more risky, but he's not coming off of September TJ (Pelfrey) and his last year of pitching effectiveness wasn't 2009 (Harden, w/ catastrophic shoulder surgery overlooming any potential comeback) or being extremely sucky for an entire career (Correia).

    Also, Marcum was never a power pitcher and still has produced vastly superior "power pitcher"-like results over the alternatives who throw faster. His potential "bounceback" from his current medical issues won't be nearly as dependent on restoring velocity, just throwing his dime-store cutter and restoring overall command. Nearly 75% of what Pelfrey throws is FBs and Split-Finger FBs.... in addition....His career peripherals pale in comparison to Marcum's, if his FB starts to touch below 90 this year, he will be basically useless for 2013.

  18. #238
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,580
    Like
    828
    Liked 815 Times in 518 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    You can't pretend to know whether Marcum is any less of a health risk than Pelfry or Harden. You just don't know.
    Didn't say that I did know, but see my post above. It's your choice to "know" even less, at your own risk.

  19. #239
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    576
    Like
    0
    Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    St. Louis was a bad example.

    1) Does everyone truly believe that the only reason you haven't signed a Top flight free agent is because you haven't offered, at least, equal money as other teams have offered?
    2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
    3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?
    4) Is it your opinion that FO has never offered equal money to a Top FA over the last 20+ years?
    5) Why is Morris the last to accept?

    I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?
    A few things. You dont have to bold and underline everything. I do agree that it is because we havent offered equal contracts as other bidders. Getting top flight talent through free agency requires you to overbid. It is in the opinion that in the past 20 years, we havent offered equal money to top flight talent. That is correct.

    Aw what the hell, I will throw in italics. Morris probably signed with the Twins because he was at the end of his career and teams probably didnt think he had anything left in the tank. Sounds like a reoccuring theme doesnt it?

  20. #240
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
    Posts
    3,519
    Like
    846
    Liked 1,184 Times in 631 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by panolo View Post
    Not how the game works in mid market baseball and you know that. The Twins don't just jettison folks. I have often wondered why someone has stayed at a level too long and not gotten a shot at moving up. Lotsa times it's a philosophical issue and many others there simply isn't enough room at the next level.
    Devries, Walters and Deduno all did move up, with less than stellar results that are only bound to worsen. Lotsa times it's simply a talent issue.

    Who exactly is sitting in AA or A ball that can't get a chance?
    Last edited by twinsnorth49; 01-25-2013 at 03:04 PM.

Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.