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Thread: Spend money just to spend money?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'johnnydako
    As for pitching Dempster, Sanchez and Jackson would have been nice to have to mentor the younger pitcher ,and would have brought a nice package come july....Or next winter
    I agree that the Twins should have signed more players in FA with the hopes of adding talent to the roster and potentially trading them. But you don't sign guys for 52+M or 80+M to trade them a year later.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Not only that, but a couple 3 or even 4 year deal right now doesn't hurt us monetarily in the future. 80M payroll for 2013, 20M more off the books by 2014, and another 7M in 2015 (at the latest). By 2015, we're gonna have Mauer and a bunch of pre-arbitration starters with a couple 1st year arbitration starters thrown in there. Payroll will continue to drop.

    Made no sense to not go and get TWO QUALITY pitchers, maybe a middle IF to improve this club. Doesn't hurt our ability to spend in the future, but does improve our team this year if only slightly and they'd always be a trade chip later.

    We don't want our team to be a little better this year when there's no downside to making it a little better? I don't get that logic.
    I think the chief argument may be what is deemed a quality pitcher to add for the money. I don't disagree that the Twins needed to add quality pitchers. I don't think many would disagree that adding two pitchers who would be a capable #2 or 3 starters is a bad idea.
    Not a maybe on improving the middle infield.
    See, we can almost agree.

  3. #203
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    How many 90 loss seasons should we give them before we criticize them? The lack of youngish players is actually an indictment of Ryan, not Smith, as it takes 3 to 5 years to first appear in the majors....interestingly, many of the best players in the minors, and diamond, were acquired by Smith...

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    I don't think so many of these guys have earned a spot in the plan yet. What has Hendriks, Correia, Pelfrey, Harden, Blackburn, Dozier, or Parmelee done to earn a roster spot in 2013, much less 2014 or 2015? You don't pencil guys into your plans based on what they did 2 years ago in the NL when they were healthy, what they did in AA, what they did in 2008-2009, or even what their paycheck is. You field the best team you can, certainly until you run out of cash, and you don't stop there if you don't have to, as long as there are better options available.

    If the Twins do sign Marcum, and Marcum tanks, and one of Rich Harden / Pelfrey / Gibson / Hendriks is able to replace him for pennies on the dollar, that is still a win. There is no downside.
    I don't necessarily think Correia or Pelfrey are good but they were signed to be in the starting rotation. The Twins are not going to sign another litcher and bump them to the bullpen (barring injury) for at least a couple of months. That is the reality of the situation.

    I also am not implying that Hendriks or Dozier are the answer but I would rather see them get the chance then another backend stiff or Kelly Johnson. At least for this season.

  5. #205
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    That smells like entitlism to me. Guys making 5/10 can fail as easily as guys making min. wage. Paying them more won't make them perform better.

    We are talking about a guy who fell out of the Pirates rotation twice last year, and a guy who for all intents and purposes, hasn't thrown a pitch since 2011. Neither have pitched in the AL.

    Jr said we were done with scholarships. That was supposed to be the lesson of Blackburn.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    That smells like entitlism to me. Guys making 5/10 can fail as easily as guys making min. wage. Paying them more won't make them perform better.

    We are talking about a guy who fell out of the Pirates rotation twice last year, and a guy who for all intents and purposes, hasn't thrown a pitch since 2011. Neither have pitched in the AL.

    Jr said we were done with scholarships. That was supposed to be the lesson of Blackburn.
    Being done with scholarships meant they would send down well paid players.

  7. #207
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Seriously, how short are our memories here. Why shouldn't Correia end up like Marquis, and Harden end up like Zumaya?

    We have solidified exactly two rotation spots - Diamond and Worley. And at that, guys have awfully short track records of success.

    I'd be fine if Jr's strategy was a lot of small gambles on reclamation projects. But he hasn't really brought in the numbers to make that strategy viable.

    I'd also be fine with going all in with a small number of high priced, surefire talents, even if that leaves a rotation hole or two at the back end, but he hasn't really done that either. He's sort of split the difference again. I guess we just cross our fingers and hope for better luck this time.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    . McCarthy is better but is much hiher injury risk.
    Why,in their current state, should the Twins care at all about risk? If anything, they should be taking advantage of the fact that they can and SHOULD be willing to gamble on risk. No one is talking 7 years of payroll-breaking here. We're talking about 3 year deals on a payroll that is only going to shrink further in the coming seasons.

    I appreciate how savvy Ryan is about good business decisions. But with this much available payroll and this much need, his unwillingness to gamble or take risks at all is a bit disturbing.

  9. #209
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden View Post
    Why would it be stretching it? Is it so hard to believe that the intention may have been to do as was said initially, but as the winter went on things did not go according to plan?
    Ryan is a smart man, if he's going to pronounce that boldly to the fan-base - he should know he has to deliver. Even if the cost isn't very palatable to him. The Twins promised more than just improvements. Given how awful their talent was last year, the bar you're setting for those promises is incredibly low and was virtually guaranteed to be passed by the signing of any warm body. That isn't what was promised.

    To say TR intentionally misled the Twins fans about upgrading the pitching, especially without hard facts to support it, is defamation and not very responsible.
    I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff. I don't know if he was misleading or naive. I'm just not comfortable with either answer. And I'm definitely not comfortable with the spin after the results.

    and do the job the way the Pohlads want.
    That may very well be the problem. This is a fanbase that jumps on and off quickly, they are risking turning that jewel in downtown Minneapolis into a ghost-town if this is all the commitment they have to the talent on the field. I'll ask it again - if the Pohlad's don't think this product is worth spending money on.....why in the hell should I? And before you say "Ok...that's your choice" just remember how quickly a few choices like that compound themselves for the health of the franchise.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Why,in their current state, should the Twins care at all about risk? If anything, they should be taking advantage of the fact that they can and SHOULD be willing to gamble on risk. No one is talking 7 years of payroll-breaking here. We're talking about 3 year deals on a payroll that is only going to shrink further in the coming seasons.

    I appreciate how savvy Ryan is about good business decisions. But with this much available payroll and this much need, his unwillingness to gamble or take risks at all is a bit disturbing.
    Why shouldn't the Twins be taking risks? The Twins are owned by people who made over a billion dollars on taking risks. Very calculated ones

  11. #211
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Why shouldn't the Twins be taking risks? The Twins are owned by people who made over a billion dollars on taking risks. Very calculated ones
    Perhaps they should apply that craft to baseball and signing free agents.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Why,in their current state, should the Twins care at all about risk? If anything, they should be taking advantage of the fact that they can and SHOULD be willing to gamble on risk. No one is talking 7 years of payroll-breaking here. We're talking about 3 year deals on a payroll that is only going to shrink further in the coming seasons.

    I appreciate how savvy Ryan is about good business decisions. But with this much available payroll and this much need, his unwillingness to gamble or take risks at all is a bit disturbing.
    I agree with this other than the fact I wouldn't go over two years on a pitcher this year unless it was a really good value signing - which wasn't happening this offseason. I much preferred McCarthy over Correia for the reasons that you suggested. I had hoped in this rebuilding season they would take a little bit more risk in the pitcher that they acquired for more upside. I was just making general comments about the pitchers that signed one or two year deals - that despite all the whining I don't find Correia all that much (if any) worse than any of the other pitchers that signed deals of that length other than McCarthy, and McCarthy had a much higher injury history/risk. Despite the injury risk I would have rolled with the upside of McCarthy over the guaranteed mediocrity of Correia.
    Papers...business papers.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Perhaps they should apply that craft to baseball and signing free agents.
    Perhaps they have. That is why they offer what they do. That is why they pay what they have. bit tongue on Burhle comment

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