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Thread: Spend money just to spend money?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden View Post
    Seriously? Big businesses get huge tax breaks and concessions all the time from cities and states looking to bring them in or have them build in a specific spot. The only thing about the Twins is that they are a very much in the public eye.
    Really, 350 million dollars in cash (not tax breaks) and an increase in the Sales Tax to pay for it. Please enlighten me on the Businesses who have received the same deal in this area.
    Last edited by Highabove; 01-14-2013 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Ron Gardenhire at the winter carivan today said ...after finishing last 2 years in a row Twins fans deserve better.... ok Terry its up to you to get better players !!!!!!!!!!!!
    He said the same thing last year, minus the 2 years in a row part

  3. #123
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    How is this conversation still going on? It is obvious that the Twins should be spending BOTH more efficiently and spending more overall. And it is equally obvious that Kevin Correia is a ridiculous example of Twins spending.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Double-A BrentMpls's Avatar
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    They needed to do something to energize the fan base, and didn't.

    Signing Zack Greinke would be a good example of something along those lines.

    With 2 bad seasons 3 years into a new ballpark, and the Wild showing that some owners in this town are willing to drop the big bucks, you have to show life.

    After a certain point there wasn't much left to grab, and at that point I do feel like it would be spending just to spend. The real issue here was not acting fast on the big dollar guys available. Yes, you're overpaying. It sucks. But you have to weigh it with everything going on, and 2 years of suck with more to come, and other teams stepping up (Wild, Wolves) it would be nice to see some life from my favorite team in my favorite sport.

    Right now the most exciting thing going on for the Twins is Target Field hosting the All-Star game next year. You have to have more than that going on for your ballclub.

  5. #125
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    In the spanish alphabet there are extra letters, extra accsents (punctuations), when i use this symbol ( i am pressing the number nine.
    not shifting up , but simply the number nine.once again let me say i apoligise....we are all twins fans
    hope we get a good season soon , have a nice day ...
    I am on your side. Please note that after you type a post, if you see any words that have a red squiggly line under them, such words are generally misspelled -- one exception would be a name that the software does not recognize. If you try to correct the spelling mistakes (using this tool) your posts will be easier to follow. That said, I am glad that we have brother fans in Mexico.

  6. #126
    Head Moderator MVP glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    So can we as fans. The problem with that is, the more of us that do that, the more it compounds the problem. Which only limits the success of the franchise long-term. Not spending now or showing a lack of commitment to the team now does have long-term ramifications. This franchise's history with that wasn't that long ago we should forget.
    If enough fans vote with their wallets, by not attending games, maybe the owners will change their ways.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Really, 350 million dollars in cash (not tax breaks) and an increase in the Sales Tax to pay for it. Please enlighten me on the Businesses who have received the same deal in this area.
    761 million to Northwest Airlines to build maintenance facilities up north that they never did.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by High above View Post
    Really, 350 million dollars in cash (not tax breaks) and an increase in the Sales Tax to pay for it. Please enlighten me on the Businesses who have received the same deal in this area.
    Compact Powers in Michigan got $150 million to build Volt batteries (instead of outsourcing). A few years back Target got an insane check to keep their headquarters in MN.

    Let's not get into subsidies that certain industries get to stay afloat or keep jobs in the USA. For example the top 5 big oil companies get something to the tune of $4 billion annually. Being in Minnesota, we know farmers get subsidized all the time. Make no mistake that tax breaks equal cash.

    Losing a sports team due to state funding does not do well come re-election time. Nobody wants to be the Governor that lost the Twins...

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    What other Businesses beg for a large public subsidy to run their operation?
    Almost all of them.

  10. #130
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    Get over it, you still have to make improvements.Winning is the only answer for the Twins.

  11. #131
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    If enough fans vote with their wallets, by not attending games, maybe the owners will change their ways.
    One word: Contraction. I think we know how this ownership responds to that. Not to say they contract but they def dont spend out of trouble.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    If enough fans vote with their wallets, by not attending games, maybe the owners will change their ways.
    You would think the Twins would get the message, but it seems to work the oposite way. Last year, fans were fewer meaning revenue decreased which in turn seems to be decreasing payroll.

    Detroit spends money to put a good product on the field to prove to their fans they are commited to giving them a winning team which in turn increases fan demand. The Twins on the other hand seem to demand fans prove their loyalty to the team in the form of spending money at the stadium (or flat out demanding a stadium) before they'll financially invest in a winning product on the field.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    You would think the Twins would get the message, but it seems to work the oposite way. Last year, fans were fewer meaning revenue decreased which in turn seems to be decreasing payroll.

    Detroit spends money to put a good product on the field to prove to their fans they are commited to giving them a winning team which in turn increases fan demand. The Twins on the other hand seem to demand fans prove their loyalty to the team in the form of spending money at the stadium (or flat out demanding a stadium) before they'll financially invest in a winning product on the field.
    Detroit has an ulterior motive. It's owner Mike Ilitch is desperate to get a WS title before he dies. He has won 4 Stanley Cups in the 30 years that he has owned the Red Wings.

  14. #134
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden View Post
    Compact Powers in Michigan got $150 million to build Volt batteries (instead of outsourcing). A few years back Target got an insane check to keep their headquarters in MN.

    Let's not get into subsidies that certain industries get to stay afloat or keep jobs in the USA. For example the top 5 big oil companies get something to the tune of $4 billion annually. Being in Minnesota, we know farmers get subsidized all the time. Make no mistake that tax breaks equal cash.

    Losing a sports team due to state funding does not do well come re-election time. Nobody wants to be the Governor that lost the Twins...
    And... If Minnesota doesn't do it... Memphis or Las Vegas will.

    Not to mention... The Economic impact... Now it's debatable if a "NEW" stadium augmented the revenue for city significantly in comparison to what the dome brought in...

    However it's pretty clear that the loss of the Minnesota Twins to Las Vegas would have taken dollars out of the community.

    I've seen estimates of around 100 million per year. Not sure of the accuracy of those estimates but I think we can assume that baseball is a good thing economically.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetOne69 View Post
    Detroit has an ulterior motive. It's owner Mike Ilitch is desperate to get a WS title before he dies. He has won 4 Stanley Cups in the 30 years that he has owned the Red Wings.
    An ulterior motive to making large profits? For shame, this is a business, there should be no imperative to winning a title at obscene profit's expense.

    The Twins had a elderly owner in the same situation a few years back. All he did was leverage the threat of losing the Twins into a new stadium. He also only needed to pay $125 million for his $545 million ballpark while Illitch pitched in $185 million to his $300 million ballpark.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Detroit spends money to put a good product on the field to prove to their fans they are commited to giving them a winning team which in turn increases fan demand. The Twins on the other hand seem to demand fans prove their loyalty to the team in the form of spending money at the stadium (or flat out demanding a stadium) before they'll financially invest in a winning product on the field.
    Detroit went over a decade under Illitch without even reaching .500. And finished last only 5 years ago. And won fewer than 70 games 7 times in 9 years including back-to-back years losing 235 (!!!) games.

  17. #137
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    Most independent economic studies show stadiums cos governments money, not give them more money....but we are off topic....should the Twins be trying to be better this year, or not?

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    Detroit went over a decade under Illitch without even reaching .500. And finished last only 5 years ago. And won fewer than 70 games 7 times in 9 years including back-to-back years losing 235 (!!!) games.
    And since 1998, the Twins have had a higher payroll than Detroit only 4 times. That speaks more about Detroit's past incompetence at putting together a winning team than it does the team's willingness to spend money to improve the product.

  19. #139
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    And... If Minnesota doesn't do it... Memphis or Las Vegas will.
    The truth behind MLB's threat to move or contract is unknowable, I think. The TC happens to be very comparable to TB and Miami in terms of market size. And if the Florida teams have proven anything, it is that A. a winning club in a new market is not guaranteed to be a payer into revenue sharing, and recently, B. a new stadium in a new market doesn't guarantee the team is a payer into the revenue sharing either. There are going to be new debts, fees, and taxes associated with a new park. So if fans aren't providing to cash to pay those things, then the proper move from ownership's perspective is to tank, as Loria did, and maximize revenue sharing income. It can easily be a swing of 40 million dollars or so, per year.

    The thing that ultimately drives profit is fan loyalty. That takes years to build, and the Twins had been at it for 40 years when MLB started threatening to contract. So I am dubious that it would be so quick to throw that away for the risk of an even smaller market like Memphis or LV.

  20. #140
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Dan Gladden View Post
    The Twins are a private run organization, allowed to spend their money however they would like. They have never made any bones about the fact they are being run like a business and not like a hobby. That means dollars matter in almost every decision. Very few companies run in the red for extended periods of time. It can't be done.
    We all understand that it's a business. I personally think it's bad business to blatantly lie to your customers and to refuse to invest in giving them a better product. Do you really believe they'll be operating in the red if they spend over $80M? I didn't realize Target Field had dropped back down to Metrodome revenues after three years. The notion is especially ridiculous when you consider the TV money that's about to be dropping on them.

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