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Thread: Article: Under-Delivering

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: Under-Delivering


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    Ryan insisted that the Twins would pursue a "pretty darn good pitcher" in free agency. In a subsequent interview with MLB Network, he responded to a question from Ken Rosenthal about his apparent rebuilding approach by saying, "I think that's a good excuse to fail, Kenny. I don't have much interest in telling people we're playing for 2015. We need to get going here, we've had two tough years… We've got to quit talking about building for the future." Correia??

  3. #3
    Banned All-Star
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    Dementia?

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Next year, Justin Morneau's 14 million will be coming off the books. This may drop the payroll into the 60's. Very little room available to sign quality Pitching.
    Last edited by Highabove; 01-11-2013 at 02:25 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Would you be happy if we were the 2012 Angels? Spend happy with the same results as Twins = home for playoffs? We are a small market team that is looking to compete this year and go back to the Twins Way for the next 10 years. The Twins have and will only be = good year in and year out = when they utilize the Draft and Trades. The Angels were never truly "in it" despite the rookie excitement of Trout. My advice is TRUST T.R. and see where he takes us in the next 2-3 years? Hard to do for a spoiled group of fans who have been the best small market team in MLB over the last 20+ years (thru draft & trades). Allow the train to get back on track and get to MN on time or you will derail it again and for good!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    Are we back to being a Small Market Team?

    I must have missed the Memo.

  7. #7
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Are we back to being a Small Market Team?.
    Apparently, because that fits the "defend the front office for the continually plunging payroll" narrative.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  8. #8
    I hate to defend Terry Ryan because I'm as frustrated as you guys are, but I think he had every intention of signing better starting pitchers. The market just went too high in a hurry. The Correia move was one of desperation. He figured they needed to get someone with a pulse since the other guys were too expensive for them.

  9. #9
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    The market went where the market was expected to go, when you realize every team is getting 25 million more in revenue next year. What is the baseball inflation adjusted salary relative to the dome years, anyone know?

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    Out if curiosity, why were the other guys too expensive? And does anyone think wages will be less in the coming years?

  11. #11
    Senior Member Double-A zenser's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=lightfoot789;75720] The Angels were never truly "in it" despite the rookie excitement of Trout. QUOTE] They were 2 back in the wild card on Sept 24 with 9 games to play. They were playing very meaningful games in September.

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've pretty much reached the "it is what it is, so let's move on and see what happens" stage of the offseason, but for anyone to still be referring to the Twins as "small market" is kind of sad. The Twins were NEVER "small market". The Twin Cities are, by pretty much any measure among MLB cities, "middle market," and have been for ages. They were a mid-market team that had small-market-like revenue streams and thus had to operate like a small market team. Those days are over. They are now officially a middle market team with middle market revenues... that has apparently resumed operating as a small market team with Terry Ryan's re-emergence as GM. I also think it's absurd to suggest that the only option to what we've seen this off-season was to be the 2012 Angels and throw money down a drain.

    Grady may well be right about Ryan genuinely wanting to get better pitchers initially. But the whole idea of prices escalating beyond expectations would only be accurate if the Twins' expectations were absurdly unrealistic.
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
    Next year, Justin Morneau's 14 million will be coming off the books. This may drop the payroll into the 60's. Very little room available to sign quality Pitching.
    And Blackburn's $5.5M, and Jamie Caroll, Pelfry, etc. the payroll liability for the Twins in 2014 right now is more like in the low 40s. This boggles my mind since there are no impending large arbitration awards on the horizon. The only explanation I could see is that Ryan believes none of the pitchers that got multi-year deals was worth it. I know I would feel a lot better if they signed Shaun Marcum to a 2-year deal at $8-10M per year. Clearly he has not signed because no one wants to give him a long-term contract or more money. This would not break the bank and he would be a great fit for Target Field so it is puzzling.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Small market is when Free Agents don't see you as a true option. Top free agents are always hesitant to go to towns like Twins - Brewers - KC - because they don't view those cities as Major entertainment type cities. Especially younger free agents. Established vets view every city as an option. Just my opinion. So yeah I believe you are viewed as Small Market in the eyes of Free Agents.

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    You can't expect to get pitching for nothing.

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    The Angels won 89 games in the toughest division in baseball last year, winning more games than our division winner, and that somehow equates to the Twins having the worst record in baseball just because neither team made the playoffs?
    Last edited by ThePuck; 01-11-2013 at 09:28 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    The market went where the market was expected to go, when you realize every team is getting 25 million more in revenue next year. What is the baseball inflation adjusted salary relative to the dome years, anyone know?
    Our payroll in 2007 was a 71.4M...regular inflation makes that just under 80M today. That's where our current payroll sits. And players salaries have gone up at a higher rate than standard inflation.

  18. #18
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I'm not going to defend Mr. Ryan for not getting someone like Jackson at that price, but I'm good with not giving some of the contracts that have been given. And, I'm very hopeful for Liam Hendriks to take a step forward in 2013. I'm very excited to see how Kyle Gibson does as he breaks into the big leagues. Can Scott Diamond come close to duplicating his 2012 season? What do the Twins really have in Alex Meyer and Trevor May? How quickly can some of those college relievers get up here? Will Anthony Slama get a chance? There are reasons for optimism, and that's not even talking about the likes of Aaron Hicks, Oswaldo Arcia, Chris Parmelee and others. I certainly wouldn't give up on Brian Dozier at this point.

    I don't think the Twins were legitimately going to compete in 2013 regardless. Detroit is too good. But I am very excited about the direction of the team. And frankly, young, talented players are much more valuable than just spending money to spend money.

    Sometimes I feel like a few people would be happier if the Twins would have given Correia 2 years and $50 million because then the payroll would be back at $100 million and "at least the Pohlad's won't pocket it."

  19. #19
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    It became apparent a long time ago that no first or second tier healthy free agent would sign here. Any analysis of why an optimistic start of free agency went so horribly wrong is lacking. "I blame Terry Ryan" appears to be the call of the fans. He is the GM. Nick merely continues the rant without analysis of how things come to be and others join in.
    What is the process for signing a player with the Twins? Were the Twins estimates as far off as the knowledgeable fans here were? How quickly did they react? Does Ryan have free reign to spend 90 million? I have a suspicion that the Pohlads have to approve of any contract over 5 million given how the offseason went. Does the process the Twins use hurt them in signing players? Nobody asks the players if the Twins contacted them. Maybe it is because they wouldn't trust the player to be honest with an answer if one were obtained at all. The journalists don't look for the factors involved, they just push the blame Ryan bandwagon.

    To say that the Twins are a large or mid market team is to ignore the paltry money earned from cable. As the newness of the stadium wears off, the revenue streams from it will be less.

  20. #20
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    It became apparent a long time ago that no first or second tier healthy free agent would sign here.
    Repeat ridiculous talking point enough times, someone eventually might believe you.

    Do you by any chance work for Fox News?

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