Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 240

Thread: Article: Under-Delivering

  1. #81
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    You wrote:
    NL Pitchers: .330 OPS
    AL DH's: .760 OPS
    For a bit of perspective, that would be like replacing Drew Butera......with Prince Fielder.


    Whats the OPS in interleague games is the stat you should be showing me.
    What is the NL DH's OPS?
    What is the AL Pitchers OPS? when hitting?
    Does that stat show that only NL pitchers can't pitch?
    as you said, that would be like replacing Drew Butera......with Prince Fielder.
    Last edited by lightfoot789; 01-11-2013 at 08:23 PM.

  2. #82
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,251
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Blog Entries
    1
    Play fantasy baseball and you will learn alot about baseball. How to win, what players are good and who is not. Who to keep and who to trade.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    969
    Like
    3
    Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I guess I am wondering if WHIP is an overated stat. It tells me who gets hit too often and who puts runners on base to often as well. I understand the sabermetrics with the other stats. You would rather take a chance on Marcum despite injuries and pay him for 3 years even if he ends up staying injured - because he has high K Rate and is more likely to win games. He has been healthy 2 of last 4 years.

    I'd rather stay with a cheaper unknown who at least has potential of eating up 6+ innings (Pefrey / Haren) if healthy. If these guys get to old form - you have 2 steals. Correia at least eats up innings and serves as a seviceable #5 or Healthy Bullpen Long Reliever.

    Now I see how Jack Morris was omitted from HOF (lol). Sabes didn't hit the standard despite being a winner in big games.
    Not to turn this into a Morris HOF debate, it does add to the discussion of pitcher evaluation. Here's a comparison of the run support Jack Morris got when compared both with Bert Blyleven and his own peers and how that affected his record: The Effects of Run Support | Mario Soto's Blog | FanNation.com. The TLDR version is that if they flipped run support, Blyleven would have been an easier and earlier inclusion and Morris wouldn't have a chance. I love Morris for Game 7, but I realize two things. One, he got the win even in that game because his fielder, Chuck Knoblauch faked Lonnie Smith out, saving a run (and what would have been the game), and two, he'd be by far the worst pitcher elected to the HOF. That said, I have nothing against people that vote for him because he performed well overall in the World Series games he pitched in.

    But, back to your question about WHIP, one of the problems with it is it relies again on defense. It's not terrible, but a good defense is going to prevent hits as well on balls that should be hits and a terrible defense is going to turn should be outs into hits.

    As for innings eaters, I like what Aaron Gleeman says about durabilty. You're only durable until you're not. One one of his and Bonnes's offseason podcasts last year, they debated the value of Pavano. Bonnes called Pavano an innings eater. Of course, he ate very few innings last season. Certainly some pitchers are more fragile but any pitcher is just an injury away from no longer eating innings.
    Last edited by Alex; 01-11-2013 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    969
    Like
    3
    Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    You wrote:
    NL Pitchers: .330 OPS
    AL DH's: .760 OPS
    For a bit of perspective, that would be like replacing Drew Butera......with Prince Fielder.


    Whats the OPS in interleague games is the stat you should be showing me.
    What is the NL DH's OPS?
    What is the AL Pitchers OPS? when hitting?
    Does that stat show that only NL pitchers can't pitch?
    as you said, that would be like replacing Drew Butera......with Prince Fielder.
    '

    I can't tell if this is a joke.... It's not the NL pitchers can't pitch. It's that NL pitchers don't face the same competition and their NL numbers will likely drop when they move to the AL.

  5. #85
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,638
    Like
    875
    Liked 627 Times in 242 Posts
    Would Correia be, even if completely healthy, an "innings eater" anyway? You still have to perform well enough to pitch deep into games.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  6. #86
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    '

    I can't tell if this is a joke.... It's not the NL pitchers can't pitch. It's that NL pitchers don't face the same competition and their NL numbers will likely drop when they move to the AL.
    I don't think it's a joke...I think it's a grasp at straws to defend a point of view that really has no legs to stand on :-)

  7. #87
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Not to turn this into a Morris HOF debate, it does add to the discussion of pitcher evaluation. Here's a comparison of the run support Jack Morris got when compared both with Bert Blyleven and his own peers and how that affected his record: The Effects of Run Support | Mario Soto's Blog | FanNation.com. The TLDR version is that if they flipped run support, Blyleven would have been an easier and earlier inclusion and Morris wouldn't have a chance. I love Morris for Game 7, but I realize two things. One, he got the win even in that game because his fielder, Chuck Knoblauch faked Lonnie Smith out, saving a run (and what would have been the game), and two, he'd be by far the worst pitcher elected to the HOF. That said, I have nothing against people that vote for him because he performed well overall in the World Series games he pitched in.

    But, back to your question about WHIP, one of the problems with it is it relies again on defense. It's not terrible, but a good defense is going to prevent hits as well on balls that should be hits and a terrible defense is going to turn should be outs into hits.

    As for innings eaters, I like what Aaron Gleeman says about durabilty. You're only durable until you're not. One one of his and Bonnes's offseason podcasts last year, they debated the value of Pavano. Bonnes called Pavano an innings eater. Of course, he ate very few innings last season. Certainly some pitchers are more fragile but any pitcher is just an injury away from no longer eating innings.

    So True about injury away

    To your point about defense - If our defense sucks we have bigger problems than just pitching, because the offense is only so good.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Would Correia be, even if completely healthy, an "innings eater" anyway? You still have to perform well enough to pitch deep into games.

    What if they tried something unconventional? Let all his games be complete games so we save the bullpen? They've tossed this season away anyway, why not try it :-)

  9. #89
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,638
    Like
    875
    Liked 627 Times in 242 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    What if they tried something unconventional? Let all his games be complete games so we save the bullpen? They've tossed this season away anyway, why not try it :-)
    Not possible, arms fall off after 100 pitches, it's science.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  10. #90
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,638
    Like
    875
    Liked 627 Times in 242 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    To your point about defense - If our defense sucks we have bigger problems than just pitching, because the offense is only so good.
    Sad, but unfortunately true. It's unlikely the offense will be any better than last year, with a good chance of being worse.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  11. #91
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    I conceed. I might be reaching with my philosophy, but I will continue to believe in management and it's unmotivating attempt to make the Twins better. I'm a beleiver / optomist. Some of these FA pitchers will pan out and prove most of these fans wrong. I see a (2011) Pirates start to the season and a late fade. Our hitters will hit and our young guys (Hicks / Plouffe / Parmelee) will flourish. Arms will have to find a way to hold on for the long run (unlikely). I see Twins fans at least staying engaged til July. These negative vibes are sure to show its face in the stands. We need True Believers (Faith)!! and yes Blind Faith!!!

  12. #92
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,082
    Like
    98
    Liked 342 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I conceed. I might be reaching with my philosophy, but I will continue to believe in management and it's unmotivating attempt to make the Twins better. I'm a beleiver / optomist. Some of these FA pitchers will pan out and prove most of these fans wrong. I see a (2011) Pirates start to the season and a late fade. Our hitters will hit and our young guys (Hicks / Plouffe / Parmelee) will flourish. Arms will have to find a way to hold on for the long run (unlikely). I see Twins fans at least staying engaged til July. These negative vibes are sure to show its face in the stands. We need True Believers (Faith)!! and yes Blind Faith!!!
    You know what blind belief achieves? Nothing. Valid criticism born out of caring about a team can at least spur a team to make changes to the way it operates

  13. #93
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    I'm just looking for 1 or 2 board bloggers who believe in management. Wow
    These negative vibes from most, can't be too helpful for a cities morale. All I hear is "here we go again fans"
    You just made the playoffs 2 or 3 years ago. Wow
    Is this why the Vikes and Timberwolves struggle with consistency?
    "Conditioning for failure (Fans) is a contagious trait."

  14. #94
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,082
    Like
    98
    Liked 342 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I'm just looking for 1 or 2 board bloggers who believe in management. Wow
    These negative vibes from most, can't be too helpful for a cities morale. All I hear is "here we go again fans"
    You just made the playoffs 2 or 3 years ago. Wow
    Is this why the Vikes and Timberwolves struggle with consistency?
    "Conditioning for failure (Fans) is a contagious trait."
    ..........

  15. #95
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,638
    Like
    875
    Liked 627 Times in 242 Posts
    I'd have to say the Twins are the ones that have done the conditioning, I'm just following their lead.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  16. #96
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    411
    Like
    0
    Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
    Blog Entries
    29
    And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.
    Last edited by lightfoot789; 01-11-2013 at 09:39 PM.

  17. #97
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,082
    Like
    98
    Liked 342 Times in 195 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.
    So rather than criticize mistakes as they are obviously happening, we should wait several years until they build on top of each other again and again before we voice our displeasure? Exactly when does one reach this threshold for criticism in this rather insane view of yours?

  18. #98
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,576
    Like
    7
    Liked 27 Times in 22 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.
    The Twins had a heck of a good run. As Janet Jackson once said "what have you done lately" If Pelfey comes back as a WAR of 3 like 08 and 10, if Gibson pitches as well as he did in the minors when health (fip around 3, fans would be ecstatic with a ml around 3.5) and if Worley pitches like he did in 2011. Diamond needs to stay about the same and Correia does his tiny bit above replacement level. Mighty big ifs, but 3 of the first 4 you might find happier fans here. Please note, If, not when. Optimism says it could happen, the last two years leads fans to believe not with the Twins luck. If Blackburn rediscovers his sinker. Nah, thats getting into fantasyland.

  19. #99
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,576
    Like
    7
    Liked 27 Times in 22 Posts
    Considering what Miami received for Sanchez, and to a lesser extent Buerhle and Johnson, could the Twins pull of a trade for Nolasco?

  20. #100
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    5,370
    Like
    1,447
    Liked 1,131 Times in 509 Posts
    I have to start paying closer attention to the Twins offseason moves. I totally missed them picking up Dan Haren.

Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.