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Thread: Torrii Hunter: Homophobe

  1. #161
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Idiot means unrefined (lacking expertise ect.) in greek (which I made explicit). Can't believe you didn't look that up before posting.
    Pfft. Add pretentious to petty.

    There was nothing explicit about your small text. I wonder why someone would use an archaic greek word which is also a much more commonly used as a pejorative, instead of using say the word "unrefined."

  2. #162
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Let the record show that the discrimination blacks faced is equivalent to the discrimination homosexuals face. Come on. That's silly.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  3. #163
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Pfft. Add pretentious to petty.

    There was nothing explicit about your small text. I wonder why someone would use an archaic greek word which is also a much more commonly used as a pejorative, instead of using say the word "unrefined."
    Well of course it was tongue and cheek also. This is a sarcastic board is it not?
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  4. #164
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I think it's bad form to ask athletes their opinion on social issues.
    I think it's a bad idea for the athlete to answer the question if I asked.
    I think it's a bad idea to get worked up over the responses if printed.

    I have read the article... I have read what Torii tweeted In response to the printed article. I really don't know what Torii thinks nor do I care. He shouldn't have been put in this position in the first place or allowed himself to participate.

    Torii is getting raked over the coals because he answered a question on a subject that has a clear division from people who don't seem to want to consider grey area.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-31-2012 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #165
    Spirit... I kinda think you're an idiot. And I'm really disappointed in 99% of the comments below. Some guy said, "I read the article"... um, did you really? Did you read the original Kevin Baxter issue too? I don't get, maybe you skimmed.

    Torii is outspoken. Yes. It's refreshing that someone can do it with some intelligence. Nothing ignorant about what was said nor HOW he said it.

    Media loves playing with context. Media loves taking a story and manipulating it, TO MANIPULATE YOU!

    This is a waste of a story. Read Torii's thoughts after. They're not the typical "oh yeah, I'm sorry so I don't get into trouble"... it's more the, "eff you for trying to make me look like an ass when I was being candid about how things are in the locker room"...

    I give him credit.

    Stop being so effin offended by every little thing. That's directed at everyone here who thinks they found something out about their long lost hero. What a bunch of crap. Grow up.

  6. #166
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flpmagikat View Post
    Tell me, just who the **** is bullying the bigots? You mean calling their opinions idiotic and immoral? Oh boo ****ing hoo. I feel no sympathy for someone getting their awful opinion called out. There is no violence perpetrated against these bigots that I'm aware of. So go cry your river for the bigots, and beat your strawmen, and keep patting yourself on your spineless back for taking no stand on something you disagree with. If posts like mine are equal to the problem of hateful bigotry in our society in your opinion, your opinion is bull****. And you have the right to your bull****.
    So you propose what exactly? You have twice flipped your lid with these rants....so what is "something" you propose? I haven't strawmanned anything.

    The key for why tact is crucial is because change endures out of compassion not force. You won't change all minds with reason and dialogue but force and ugliness in retaliation guarantees none are changed.

  7. #167
    Senior Member Triple-A B Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    You're being overly ideological in your notion of discourse and ignoring the historical weight of this particular debate. To suggest that there is a debate to be had about homophobia is insulting.
    Sorry if I offended or insulted you, but there is a debate to be had about everything. Wherever two varying opinions exist, there is, by definition, a debate to be had. Should we have to have a debate about the LGBT community deserving equal rights? Christ, no. I think it's incredibly obvious that people of all races and creeds deserve equal treatment under the law. Sadly, some don't agree with me. How is it best to change their minds and the culture? Through repetition of "You're wrong," or through saying "you're wrong, because"? I find it hard to believe the latter is not more effective than the former in shaping culture. I am more than capable of having a level-headed discussion with someone whom I believe is absolutely nuts.

    As a side remark, let me remind you that the LGBT community has come a long way in recent years to change certain cultural understandings of what it means to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. I shouldn't have to cite the recent election and Obama's victory speech as evidence, but I will. In sum, I think we are getting quite close to a time where people of the LGBT community can receive equal treatment under the law. I really do- and I also believe in the mean time we ought to educate those who disagree, not blindly yell at them.

  8. #168
    I'm not proposing anything. I think torii hunter is a fool and bigot, and that when fools and bigots speak out confirming as much they can and probably should be called out, and it's not the end of the world. And it isn't at all in any way equal to the specific and general **** i or anyone involved in the lgbt community deals all the time. I don't really care what torii hunter says or thinks, unlike the writer of the article I don't find him at all thoughtful or intelligent, actually quite the opposite. You, however, are disappointing as even as you profess to disagree with that nonsense, you still have to goddamn equate the backlash against that bs sentiment to the actual hate and bigotry that provokes it. And really, you haven't addressed the fact that as far as I know no one has ever been murdered for their bigotry(well maybe not never) Not everything is equal, and no one is trying to suppress those bigoted views, just eradicate them in part by shaming and pointing out just how ridiculous and ****ty they are.

  9. #169
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    When did I say they were equal? Go back and read what you misinterpreted, flipped out about,, and proceeded to strawman on. I never said the ugly was equal. But hate and vitriole isnt right just because it isnt as extreme.

  10. #170
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    [Too many] still have to goddamn equate the backlash against that bs sentiment to the actual hate and bigotry that provokes it.
    Some of you, let this sink in. There's pettiness in this thread that beguiles decency. By arguing the finer points, we continue to crown those already king. Should decency lose on a foul, or some obscure legalese? Let's not be so innocent about the nuance some are asking for...

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    When did I say they were equal? Go back and read what you misinterpreted, flipped out about,, and proceeded to strawman on. I never said the ugly was equal. But hate and vitriole isnt right just because it isnt as extreme.

    Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
    One is making the statement "dude, you're a dick and you need to stop saying that" versus "dude, I hate you, everybody like you, and you all need to go away forever".



    One could argue the latter is exactly what is happening to "people like Torii" in the tone of some of the comments here. It's a reflection of something I worry about in society - how ugly the pro-gay movement is in regards to the anti-gay people. Now, in my opinion, anti-gay opinions have no moral value and are ugly in and of themselves, but I fail to see how reciprocating that ugly does anyone any good.


    "the latter is exactly what is happening to people like torii..." Nope, not equating at all, just saying its exactly the same. I guess I missed the part where people were telling torii he was going to rot in hell an d god hates him and he's an abomination and...


  12. #172
    Senior Member Triple-A B Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    By arguing the finer points, we continue to crown those already king. Should decency lose on a foul, or some obscure legalese? Let's not be so innocent about the nuance some are asking for...
    Already king? Your comment shows a lack of knowledge regarding the LGBT community and its recent advances. The tide is rising for gay rights, not going back out to sea. I would urge you to utilize google and educate yourself. As a country, we've come a long way in the fight for equality. There's still ground to be gained, but let's not pretend this is 1950. The way to continue gaining ground is to properly address bigotry with reasoned arguments instead of shouting it down.


    I personally would never equate "blind" opposition against bigotry to what it seeks to eliminate. Don't be ridiculous. I've merely argued that the most effective way to eliminate bigotry is through argument rather than command. Don't jump to conclusions. No one here would invoke "obscure legalese" in order to let bigotry control the masses. It's easy for you and many others to forget that we are all on the same side of this larger battle for equality- don't.


    Perhaps it's just that our respective educations have taught us different respects for the power of argument.
    Last edited by B Richard; 01-01-2013 at 02:33 AM.

  13. #173
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flpmagikat
    "the latter is exactly what is happening to people like torii..." Nope, not equating at all, just saying its exactly the same. I guess I missed the part where people were telling torii he was going to rot in hell an d god hates him and he's an abomina
    So you missed the quote by Brock and myself again? I said the hate speech at Torii sounds awfully similar in ugly tone. You somehow brought violence into that. That looney take is all you. There is plenty of evidence in thesr 9 pages of the ugly I was actually talking about.

  14. #174
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Some of you, let this sink in. There's pettiness in this thread that beguiles decency. By arguing the finer points, we continue to crown those already king. Should decency lose on a foul, or some obscure legalese? Let's not be so innocent about the nuance some are asking for...
    Funny. I dont understand why so many people abandon their liberal principles to turn ugly on this subject. What you just said justifies every ugly act by anti-abortion people outside of clinics. Every amoral act in the "war on terror" and on and on. It is silly.

    Compassion, as you lefties so often tell us, wins far more hearts than ugly or hate. It wont win them all and no one is naively arguing otherwise.

  15. #175
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Torii Hunter is being attacked for supposedly (he has claimed to be taken out of context) being exactly what statistics tell us he should be.

    Male, Black, from the South and Religious. All 4 are attributes that statistically suggest a degree of homophobia today. After all, someone is voting against Same Sex marraige because it isn't always passing by a large margin.

    Some say there is no difference between homophobia today and Race issues from the past.

    So here is question with context that I hope is answered honestly.

    For example purposes only... If you grew up in the (let's say) 1910's. The son or daughter of a Plantantion Owner. Growing up in a racist household surrounded by a racist government, racist friends, racist schools. If Racism is all around you.

    Can any of you who are upset with Torii Hunter honestly say that you would have risen above it. If you think you could have... give it your best shot to convince me.

    If you start asking athletes social questions and they answer them honestly. They will all fall from pedestals one by one! There will be no one left to cheer for.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    So you missed the quote by Brock and myself again? I said the hate speech at Torii sounds awfully similar in ugly tone. You somehow brought violence into that. That looney take is all you. There is plenty of evidence in thesr 9 pages of the ugly I was actually talking about.
    The hate speech at torii...Jesus Christ. I mentioned violence as, if you're going to compare the "hate speech" directed at Hunter in this thread with hate speech directed at gay people daily, well violence is part of one of those. But to you they're exactly the same, unless you're doing one of those non comparison comparisons made famous by nick in the Gomez/delmon debate of yesteryear. So you know what, you might not like my ugly tone. I don't like the ugly content of the bs you're trying to pass as reason. And I'd much rather get worked up over something that actually personally affects me, even indirectly, than the **** you flip at, like a qb in the nfl. And as far as what you posted to pseudo, I guess I missed the part in the liberal handbook where it says be nice to everyone all the time, and never get angry at people spewing toxic garbage. I deal with actual hate speech from idiots, and idiotic opinions that aren't necessarily hateful from people like hunter pretty ****ing regularly. But it's people like you who claim to be so ****ing supportive of equality and opposed to those harmful views, yet somehow took this thread and made it about the response to closemindedness and hate being the same as the actual ignorant and hate speech, that actually set me off. I'd say show me an instance where someone has said or implied something here so ugly as half the **** you hear almost daily directed at the gay community, but you won't, and I don't even care. No one has said hunter should be punished, reprimanded, harmed. Just made to feel foolish for saying something foolish. But of course, it's the liberals who are at fault for being too mean.
    Last edited by flpmagikat; 01-01-2013 at 01:59 PM.

  17. #177
    Senior Member Triple-A jtrinaldi's Avatar
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    really surprised this thread has lasted this long
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  18. #178
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Funny. I dont understand why so many people abandon their liberal principles to turn ugly on this subject. What you just said justifies every ugly act by anti-abortion people outside of clinics. Every amoral act in the "war on terror" and on and on. It is silly.

    Compassion, as you lefties so often tell us, wins far more hearts than ugly or hate. It wont win them all and no one is naively arguing otherwise.
    Jesus, this is a silly response. You're using a slippery slope argument to transparently distort my point. Are you really suggesting Torii ought be treated with compassion for making homophobic remarks? Or is this argument another one of your academic points you are making?

  19. #179
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Richard View Post
    Already king? Your comment shows a lack of knowledge regarding the LGBT community and its recent advances. The tide is rising for gay rights, not going back out to sea. I would urge you to utilize google and educate yourself. As a country, we've come a long way in the fight for equality. There's still ground to be gained, but let's not pretend this is 1950. The way to continue gaining ground is to properly address bigotry with reasoned arguments instead of shouting it down.


    I personally would never equate "blind" opposition against bigotry to what it seeks to eliminate. Don't be ridiculous. I've merely argued that the most effective way to eliminate bigotry is through argument rather than command. Don't jump to conclusions. No one here would invoke "obscure legalese" in order to let bigotry control the masses. It's easy for you and many others to forget that we are all on the same side of this larger battle for equality- don't.
    Look, to somehow suggest that the gains made by the LGBT community is demonstrative of their own kingness (to carry on my metaphor) totally obscures the deep dark tyranny-by-majority done onto that LGBT historically. Do you really think I lack knowledge about the gains of that community? My point is those gains are totally insufficient.


    Perhaps it's just that our respective educations have taught us different respects for the power of argument.
    Arguments don't exist in vacuums and not all arguments have equal truth values. Can you really expect an argument between Reason and Faith or between that which is demonstrable true and that which is demonstrable false? Such arguments are sophistry and can only obscure reason and fact.

    Let's get practical here, what tangible good can possible come from a debate about the ethics of homophobia?

  20. #180
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Torii Hunter is being attacked for supposedly (he has claimed to be taken out of context) being exactly what statistics tell us he should be.

    Male, Black, from the South and Religious. All 4 are attributes that statistically suggest a degree of homophobia today. After all, someone is voting against Same Sex marraige because it isn't always passing by a large margin.

    Some say there is no difference between homophobia today and Race issues from the past.

    So here is question with context that I hope is answered honestly.

    For example purposes only... If you grew up in the (let's say) 1910's. The son or daughter of a Plantantion Owner. Growing up in a racist household surrounded by a racist government, racist friends, racist schools. If Racism is all around you.

    Can any of you who are upset with Torii Hunter honestly say that you would have risen above it. If you think you could have... give it your best shot to convince me.

    If you start asking athletes social questions and they answer them honestly. They will all fall from pedestals one by one! There will be no one left to cheer for.
    Are you really suggesting that people shouldn't be held accountable for their beliefs? How far are you willing to go down this slippery slope?

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