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Thread: Michael Bourn or Kyle Lohse?

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    Michael Bourn or Kyle Lohse?

    I was listening to Jim Bowden on SiriusXM's "Inside Pitch" and he had some interesting things to say about signing Michael Bourn & Kyle Lohse. Ok both are Scott Boras clients that can't find a job because of Boras (which is my guess).

    If the Twins signed either player they would give up their #2 round pick or you if signed both #2 & #3 round pick. His idea would be to sign them and basically deal them either at the trade deadline or June 15th. June 15th would be the earliest day you could trade a free agent you just signed.

    So why not offer 3YR $45M for a rental for a few months and then trade for prospects. You would get a great return from a contending team needing that extra player to put them over the top.

    Also, the Twins could sign either player to keep the ARB clock from starting on Aaron Hicks and Kyle Gibson.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    The probability of them signing Lohse is about 0%. Not with Gardenhire around.
    The Bourne (sic) objective is intriguing as a sign and trade but:
    a. There are limits on when you can trade someone you just signed (so teams would not do exactly what you propose) And he will be around for a season blocking a Twins' prospect (or 2)
    b. Signing a veteran you don't need to this kind of a contract, you are a torn ACL in ST away from having an albatross of a contract.
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    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    a. There are limits on when you can trade someone you just signed (so teams would not do exactly what you propose)
    Really? No way! Wait a minute, it seems that I've read something like that before.....oh yeah, he already said that in the original post.


    Quote Originally Posted by darin617 View Post
    His idea would be to sign them and basically deal them either at the trade deadline or June 15th. June 15th would be the earliest day you could trade a free agent you just signed.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
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  4. #4
    Although this is highly unlikely, I think this is a brilliant strategy. Hopefully Terry Ryan takes it into serious consideration, we could get a huge return on a Michael Bourn trade

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    Quote Originally Posted by thrylos98 View Post
    The probability of them signing Lohse is about 0%. Not with Gardenhire around.
    The Bourne (sic) objective is intriguing as a sign and trade but:
    a. There are limits on when you can trade someone you just signed (so teams would not do exactly what you propose) And he will be around for a season blocking a Twins' prospect (or 2)
    b. Signing a veteran you don't need to this kind of a contract, you are a torn ACL in ST away from having an albatross of a contract.
    A player can be traded any time after June 15th.
    Sign Bourn, trade Bourn and then call up Hicks.

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    How can you spin that to the casual fan? It makes sense, but I can't think of a time that happened.

  7. #7
    Hey, wait...why wouldn't the "proposed" trade partner just sign them now, today, for the multi-year contract...filling a major need, and still able to trade them in year one, two or three for a comparable draft pick who has been thru the system of another team, rather than a complete draftee unknown. Then, there is the additional cost that could happen with a limited no-trade clause. If a player thinks they might just be flipped, they will sign a generous one-year contract and hope they don't get injured enough to get a multi-year next season, and getting a new agent in the process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    Hey, wait...why wouldn't the "proposed" trade partner just sign them now, today, for the multi-year contract...filling a major need, and still able to trade them in year one, two or three for a comparable draft pick who has been thru the system of another team, rather than a complete draftee unknown. Then, there is the additional cost that could happen with a limited no-trade clause. If a player thinks they might just be flipped, they will sign a generous one-year contract and hope they don't get injured enough to get a multi-year next season, and getting a new agent in the process.
    Because teams that don't have their 1st round pick protected don't want to lose it. The Twins would only lose their 2nd round pick if they signed Bourn. The Twins could also sign Lohse and only lose a 3rd round pick. The Twins could also sign a another Boras client Rafael Soriano and do the same thing.

    It would be just like what the Marlins do all the time with fire sales.

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    So Terry Ryan, who has publicly stated it is wrong to trade a guy and then trade him, will now sign two players, only planning to deal them? That seems unlikely. Also, what if they get hurt, and you are stuck with the contracts?

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Easily the dumbest thread on this site...a site that included 258 pages full of slama junk. In a fantasy baseball league this stuff happens but not in the real world of baseball. IF this would ever happen that team would never sign a free agent again. And bourn will get a 10 to 15 mil deal for a one year make good contract. Not 4.

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    Justin Morneau said Thursday that he's "miles ahead of where I've been the last two years" physically.

    "I'm feeling good, feeling strong, building strength instead of just doing rehab like I've done the last two winters -- not recovering from surgery, but actually building toward the goal of getting strong and being ready for spring training and being ready early for that World Baseball Classic," Morneau said. The first baseman has added weight this offseason after feeling fatigued at the end of a 2012 campaign that saw him bat a disappointing .267/.333/.440 with 19 home runs. Finally healthy and in his walk year, Morneau is a rebound candidate in 2013.

    Source: 1500ESPN.com

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    Is Top Gun a bot?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    Justin Morneau said Thursday that he's "miles ahead of where I've been the last two years" physically.

    "I'm feeling good, feeling strong, building strength instead of just doing rehab like I've done the last two winters -- not recovering from surgery, but actually building toward the goal of getting strong and being ready for spring training and being ready early for that World Baseball Classic," Morneau said. The first baseman has added weight this offseason after feeling fatigued at the end of a 2012 campaign that saw him bat a disappointing .267/.333/.440 with 19 home runs. Finally healthy and in his walk year, Morneau is a rebound candidate in 2013.

    Source: 1500ESPN.com
    That's great news. I think he's due for a big year

  14. #14
    What if they suffer a bad injury before you can trade them? You can't make an agreement to spend money that you have no intent on actually paying. This is baseball, not congress.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I thought teams didn't "lose" their picks anymore? I really have to get caught up on that element of the new CBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darin617 View Post
    I was listening to Jim Bowden on SiriusXM's "Inside Pitch" and he had some interesting things to say about signing Michael Bourn & Kyle Lohse. Ok both are Scott Boras clients that can't find a job because of Boras (which is my guess).

    If the Twins signed either player they would give up their #2 round pick or you if signed both #2 & #3 round pick. His idea would be to sign them and basically deal them either at the trade deadline or June 15th. June 15th would be the earliest day you could trade a free agent you just signed.

    So why not offer 3YR $45M for a rental for a few months and then trade for prospects. You would get a great return from a contending team needing that extra player to put them over the top.

    Also, the Twins could sign either player to keep the ARB clock from starting on Aaron Hicks and Kyle Gibson.
    As just this scenario was discussed on TD a couple weeks ago, it's obvious that Bowden checks in at this site to generate ideas and topics.

    Seriously, the Twins have surprised this offseason in their willingness to take on not one, but two, Boras clients. It is plausible that if the relationship has warmed to the point that the MN Twins might become Boras's MLB version of the St Paul Saints and be willing to park his "clients in transition", ala JD Drew, at Target Field for a short run--- it would make sense all around for both Lohse and Bourn to sign here. The Twins could get more proven prospects than merely a 2nd and 3rd rounder and the clubs that really want these guys won't lose a high draft pick and save some money in the process.

    I also doubt that lame-duck Gardy at this point in his tenuous tenure, would have any say on whether or not Lohse comes here.

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    Draft Pick Compensation
    1. Starting in 2012, “Type A” and “Type B” free agents and the use of the Elias ranking
    system will be eliminated.
    2. The current system of draft pick compensation will be replaced with the following
    system:

    A. Only Players who have been with their Clubs for the entire season will be subject
    to compensation.

    B. A free agent will be subject to compensation if his former Club offers him a
    guaranteed one-year contract with a salary equal to the average salary of the
    125-highest paid Players from the prior season. The offer must be made at the
    end of the five-day free agent “quiet period,” and the Player will have seven days
    to accept the offer.

    C. A Club that signs a player subject to compensation will forfeit its first round
    selection, unless it selects in the top 10, in which case it will forfeit its second highest
    selection in the draft.

    D. The Player’s former Club will receive a selection at the end of the first round
    beginning after the last regularly scheduled selection in the round. The former
    Clubs will select based on reverse order of winning percentage from the prior
    championship season.

  18. #18
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    It's a fun idea, but Lohse has been far from the model of consistancy through his career. If he pitched like he did in 2011 and 2012 the Twins could move him, if he pitched like he did in 2009 and 2010 they're left holding the bag.

    In Bourn, that would mean you're risking paying a guy $15 million + with a career .704 OPS and who's never topped .740 in a single season. He looks a lot like Ben Revere but takes a few more walks, strikes out a ton more and has a much better PR team. There's a good chance the draft pick isn't the biggest issue, perhaps Bourn isn't signing because no one sees him as a $10 million player yet Boras is trying to get him $20 million.

    Also, I believe you can trade players before June 15 as long as the player agrees to the deal. Surely they would if that was the plan all along. At some point MLB probably would need to consider interceding though if teams used this technique often and blatently skirted the CBA.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 12-28-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  19. #19
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    This idea makes no sense. A team that won't sign Lohse/Bourn because they don't want to lose their 1st round draft pick isn't going to then turn around a few months later and trade away significant prospects. From the Twins perspective they would need significant compensation for their risk like a top prospect which our trading partner would seemingly already have determined Lohse/Bourn aren't worth in the offseason.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    This idea makes no sense. A team that won't sign Lohse/Bourn because they don't want to lose their 1st round draft pick isn't going to then turn around a few months later and trade away significant prospects. From the Twins perspective they would need significant compensation for their risk like a top prospect which our trading partner would seemingly already have determined Lohse/Bourn aren't worth in the offseason.
    You need to take into account the simple fact that the risk/reward equation and the hierarchy of needs model are both subject to constant change.

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