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Thread: Indians sign Swisher

  1. #21
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    Look, I'm a proponent of competing in 2013/14 if it doesn't restrict better moves in the future. Would you have been willing to trade Willingham and sign Swisher to this deal, for instance? I sure wouldn't.
    I would be 100% for trading Willingham for a very good pitching prospect and signing Swisher. It's not a great contract but he seems like a guy that will age relatively well and I think the contract will hurt less than many of the pitchers that some wanted the Twins to sign.

  2. #22
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    I would be 100% for trading Willingham for a very good pitching prospect and signing Swisher. It's not a great contract but he seems like a guy that will age relatively well and I think the contract will hurt less than many of the pitchers that some wanted the Twins to sign.
    I don't think Willingham would net what Cleveland got, so that's why I didn't put it that way. I'm all for moving Willingham for a good piece, but I don't want to reinvest the saved money in Swisher on the whisps of competitiveness. And I bet you really wouldn't do that either...

  3. #23
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    Cleveland got the best pitcher in the central, Trevor Bauer ever heard of him? what does the Twins got? Oh ya Correia.

  4. #24
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    That largely depends on whether or not the Swisher contract turns into an albatross, unless you think they'll compete in 2013.
    Its just me... Sometimes you just run across a player that you don't think much of at some point and you can't shake the feeling no matter how well he does after... That's kinda Swisher for me. He had some bad years and I kinda labeled him and haven't taken him seriously since. That's my problem... Not his... Hes been pretty consistent the past few years but i still try to rationalize his numbers with the short porch at Yankee stadium and things like that but his splits dont suggest that it's fair of me to do that.

    Can Cleveland compete this year? Oddly enough... I think the Twins have more depth on the mound as of right now. In 2012... Cleveland was just as bad as we were and that means they were awful on the mound... Bauer was a fantastic get for them but if Ubaldo doesn't get it together... Masterson, McAllister and Bauer won't be enough... They have nothing after that right now... Someone will get hurt... Ubaldo could suck... Bauer might get knocked around his first full year... They need depth and they don't have any...

    The offense has a couple of holes but it has potential if Chisenhall and Kipnis start playing to potential... But it won't be enough to over come the Pitching in my estimation. They will be stronger if they can move Asdrubal for a decent pitcher or two and they just might do that. They do have Aviles to take his place and Lindor a couple years away in the shadows.

    Right now I'd say they will finish last in the Central and I will say 3rd or 4th if they trade Cabrera for Two decent arms.... One arm won't get the job done.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-23-2012 at 10:11 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gun View Post
    Cleveland got the best pitcher in the central, Trevor Bauer ever heard of him? what does the Twins got? Oh ya Correia.
    He is way better than that Jason Verlander guy.

  6. #26
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    Verly is great! He got 2yrs left at 20M, then let the bidding start. Although he didn't pitch that great in the playoffs.

  7. #27
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    Totally missed sarcasm

  8. #28
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    If Bauer was that good Arizona would not have traded him. Twins may finish last this year, White Sox may be close, but they are headed in the right direction. Amass arms that may function at a major league, and hope enough of the starters can pitch well.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Right, but deals like these don't help the Indians long term chances and perhaps even hinder them, which, along with what KC had done this winter, makes me feel pretty good about our next competitive window around 2015. As hard as that may be to stomach now, the Twins aren't handcuffing their future what so ever.
    Yes nothing like finishing dead last 3 or 4 years in a row to get players begging to come to minnesota

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Kwak;73297]Most likely Appel will be drafted this summer--the Twins have the 4th selection. The Twins won't jeopardize losing a draft choice the following year by overrunning the "slot budget"--which would require that Appel would sign for #4 slot money. He must still be available for the Twins to draft with that 4th selection--unlikely.[
    The C.B.A. doesnt penalize you for over running a slot , its combine 10 rounds of bonuses,
    Isnt Appel a senior ? is he going to go to an independant leaque?, or accept the 6 million bonus?
    as where he goes in the draft, his season will have a lot to do with that , he may fall out of the 1st round completly

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckmt View Post
    If Bauer was that good Arizona would not have traded him. Twins may finish last this year, White Sox may be close, but they are headed in the right direction. Amass arms that may function at a major league, and hope enough of the starters can pitch well.
    I think it has more to do attitude then his skill , he would fit right in with A.J. me thinks or the lilly white Twins

  12. #32
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    You can only live on hope tell the season begins, then the truth sets in!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    What? Its fine to dislike him for his antics, but to dislike him for the Nishioka play is absurd.

    The Nishioka play was a common and clean play, it's not his fault we literally had one of the worst 10 players of all time playing SS for us that game.

    Also, that play actually benefited us, it took out an absolutely terrible SS/2B and forced us to replace him with a less terrible SS/2B. And then Nishioka ended up saving us some decent cash anyways!


    Swisher has a 4.1, 3.8 and 3.9 WAR's the past three years. He is a good player and actually seems like a good clubhouse guy as well. (think Remond but with talent!)


    Also when is the Baker signing press conference? I'd like to know the date and time so I can view it live on the web!
    Nishioka wasn't playing shortstop when that happened...Casilla was. Nishioka was playing 2B. Nishioka wasn't brought in to play SS, he was brought in to play 2B cause Gardy wanted Casilla at shortstop and they didn't like Nishi's arm for shortstop. This was said in December, but after enough questions were asked, they had to go through the circus of their ST battles to 'see where each one would play'. Shockingly, they decided on what they had said right when they got Nishi. I know, right? A sham ST battle in Twins territory. Who knew?

    However, as things go on this team, they switched Nishi over to shortstop when he came back off the injury...in part because Gardy's answer for shortstop, Casilla, was a horrible shortstop, so he went back to where he plays best, 2B...and it left us with Nishi at SS. If they had left Casilla at shortstop and Nishi at 2B, we would have been horrible defensively at both spots. With Casilla at 2B and Nishi at shortstop, we were only horrible at one. Unfortunately, it was the more important one...
    Last edited by ThePuck; 12-26-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  14. #34
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    The Swisher signing didn't make a lot of sense to me. He seems due for a decline, it's just his agent was angling for a big deal long before he hit the market. He was basically playing in his prime years in NY surrounded by all kinds of bats able to protect him and hitting in a very offensively friendly park, yet his numbers were about the same as they were his last two years in Oakland. I would have thought his numbers would have improved during that time, just as they did for Granderson.

    Now he's heading into the declining stage of his carrer in a less offensively friendly park with less offensive help. If he falters, he likely falters big time. If that OBP starts dropping that's all she wrote, all of his offensive powers stem from being able to get on base.

    That being said, his contract shouldn't be an albatross for the Indians, anymore than Mauer's for the Twins. The Indians aren't going to be paying too many guys in the coming years, they'll be relying on the cheap talent at the farm so they can afford to take a high priced gamble more so now, than say in six years when those guys will hit arbitration/free agency.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    That being said, his contract shouldn't be an albatross for the Indians, anymore than Mauer's for the Twins. The Indians aren't going to be paying too many guys in the coming years, they'll be relying on the cheap talent at the farm so they can afford to take a high priced gamble more so now, than say in six years when those guys will hit arbitration/free agency.
    I agree with your take save this passage. There's likely to be another, younger Swisher-like player when (if) the Indians are actually competitive. In two, three years, I'm sure the Indians will wish they had that 16 million a year to put elsewhere.
    Last edited by PseudoSABR; 12-26-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  16. #36
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I don't see Texas overpaying right now... I do see them willing to shell out something nice at the deadline if they are in a race and are missing that power bat. Olt could make this whole conversation moot...as could a Cruz rebound, which is hardly unrealistic...

  17. #37
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    Yay, Swisher. Maybe that will offset the fact that the Indians have a bottom 10 farm system (as do the Tigers and White Sox). As much as I bitch about the Twins' free agent acquisitions (or lack thereof), I wouldn't trade places with either the White Sox or Indians and you'd have to make a convincing argument to trade places with Detroit, a team that is going to be good for another year or two and then will get real bad, real fast.

    The only team in the Central positioned better for the future is the Royals and I think Moore blew it by trading for Shields this offseason.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yay, Swisher. Maybe that will offset the fact that the Indians have a bottom 10 farm system (as do the Tigers and White Sox). As much as I bitch about the Twins' free agent acquisitions (or lack thereof), I wouldn't trade places with either the White Sox or Indians and you'd have to make a convincing argument to trade places with Detroit, a team that is going to be good for another year or two and then will get real bad, real fast.

    The only team in the Central positioned better for the future is the Royals and I think Moore blew it by trading for Shields this offseason.
    Assuming the prospects work out or aren't stifled in the minors, you could very well be right

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Assuming the prospects work out or aren't stifled in the minors, you could very well be right
    Contrary to popular opinion around here, there is no evidence that the Twins stifle their minor league players. Do they keep them in the minors for a long time? Yeah, particularly the hitters. But over the past 10-12 years, the Twins have produced a lot of quality hitters. You'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that the team is stifling their hitters when they've churned out the likes of Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel, and Span and now it appears as if they may have salvaged what looked like some pretty bad drafts with Plouffe and Parmelee while Hicks, Arcia, Sano, etc. are waiting in the wings.

    As for pitching, well... The Twins just haven't done a good job of finding talented arms in the past 5-7 years. Hard to find much in the way of MLB quality arms when you draft like crap and then run into more than your fair share of awful luck.

  20. #40
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    I've always liked Swisher. I enjoy charismatic players. He generally isn't a disrespectful player. His slide on Nishioka was not at all wrong. He is a terrific player. He takes tremendous at bats, takes a lot of pitchers, walks and he has home run power. He's a solid RF and a decent 1B. Would I have given him that contract? Probably not, but it's a nice signing. And, the Ohio State alum goes back to the state to play.

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