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Thread: Article: Is Lame Duck Gardy Good as Gone?

  1. #21
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    After signing Correia I can't help but think TR is trying time get Gardy to quit knowing it's only a matter of time before he's out with this roster.

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'd think Gene Glynn would be first in line.
    Glynn seems kind of old to be getting his first major league managing job. I also don't see what's in his resume that someone hiring would find so fascinating. Not saying he'd be bad, just that there's probably 100 other guys just like him and a bit younger so if he succeeds he'll be around a good long while.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjacent View Post
    If thye start with a new manager in 2014, it is because they think that is the year they can start winning again.
    I think the brain trust sees 2015 as the first season they'll really contend, but if 2014 is the "turn the corner" season then in your scenario it still makes sense for this to be when to bring in the new guy.

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'd think Gene Glynn would be first in line.
    Glynn seems kind of old to be getting his first major league managing job. I also don't see what's in his resume that someone hiring would find so fascinating. Not saying he'd be bad, just that there's probably 100 other guys just like him and a bit younger so if he succeeds he'll be around a good long while.
    I think Molitor is older than Gardenhire or Glynn (looked this up a while ago and didn't go back today). They are all actually quite similar in age. Yes, Molitor has the HOF credentials but I'm not sure that matters too much in managing -- and he has less recent experience (despite the special instructor role --or whatever it is called).

    I'm not advocating for Glynn but I don't think age is a reason to disqualify him.

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I'd guess that this will be his last year with the Twins and I base that guess on the possibility of another losing season.

    If the Twins have a winning season in 2013. We very likely will see Gardy in 2014.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I'm not advocating for Glynn but I don't think age is a reason to disqualify him.
    It doesn't disqualify him, any moreso than being young disqualifies someone, but the usual age for a first managing gig is younger than Glynn is and I am not seeing what makes him the guy who should buck the trend. The upside of going with someone similar but 10 years younger is that if you happen to really click with your pick, you've potentially got him for a couple of decades.

  7. #27
    My hunch--Gardy (who is no dummy) knows he is gone...I hope he is looking at other jobs when they do come open and leaves the Twins during the year...our next manager should be younger (born in 1960s) to relate to kids who will be here in 2014 and 2015...that eliminates Molitar, Glynn and Ryno. Brunansky was born in 1960...

  8. #28
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    It seems to me that professional sports team managers (or head coaches if you will) are better suited for certain types of teams: a) seasoned veterans b) up-and-comers c) new-kids-on-the-block etc. Gardy took over a team of up-and-comers and did quite well but when the team change to a different mix, well let's say not so well. The "new Twins" are going to be "new-kids-on-the-block" and I don't think these are the types of players that benefit from a "Gardenhire". The Twins are going to a "new blood" team--so get a new manager, not someone who is a relic from the past who will constantly remark "...we did things ...and won before...". They want someone who will say something like "...forget about the past, and its' losing way, we have new ideas that will put us onto 'winning ways'...", or something like that.

  9. #29
    I can see something similar to what Tom Kelly did by getting the team turned around, then announcing his retirement.

  10. #30
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    While I do not always agree with Gardys tactical decisions, he must do something well because the team has generally been successful with him here. I believe with a bench coach to help temper a few decisions that he can be a successful manager again.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    There's no denying the team has had a good run with Gardy as manager. If he gets scapegoated for a lousy 2013, that would be unlike the Twins and also unfair.

    That being said, I was hoping the front office would consider going another direction after the Twins once again failed utterly and spectacularly to show up, let alone compete, in the 2010 postseason. Regardless of sample size, being swept three straight times and winning just three games in six series since the 2002 ALDS win is an absolutely dreadful record.

    Gardenhire is a good manager, but he's not LaRussa. He's a good guy with an unhealthy fetish for futility infielders, considerable disdain for statistics, and decreasing patience with the kids, which is the thing that seemed to do in TK in the end. I think the thing I'd miss most about Gardenhire would be his relentless pursuit of the AL record for manager ejections, which he's on pace to do in about five more seasons.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 12-12-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  12. #32
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    I'm be more concerned for Gardy's fate if the Twins didn't have a bunch of young players ready to come through the doors in the next 2-3 years and knowing Gardy's preferences for crappy veterans over young talent. Or his poor game management. Or his poor batting order choices. Or his preference for putting a player's wants over what's best for the team.

    Gardy's a good enough manager for a veteran team; his guys play hard for him, he doesn't embarrass the club, and he does a decent enough job with a pitching staff. But is he the guy you want to develop young talent? How much value is he really adding?

    Of course, I'm also the guy who believes to this day he had a strong hand in on some of Bill Smith's worse personnel failures and then threw his GM under the bus.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlease1 View Post
    I'm be more concerned for Gardy's fate if the Twins didn't have a bunch of young players ready to come through the doors in the next 2-3 years and knowing Gardy's preferences for crappy veterans over young talent. Or his poor game management. Or his poor batting order choices. Or his preference for putting a player's wants over what's best for the team.

    Gardy's a good enough manager for a veteran team; his guys play hard for him, he doesn't embarrass the club, and he does a decent enough job with a pitching staff. But is he the guy you want to develop young talent? How much value is he really adding?

    Of course, I'm also the guy who believes to this day he had a strong hand in on some of Bill Smith's worse personnel failures and then threw his GM under the bus.
    Go back and look at the teams he's managed. They are always young. There's this weird fan thought that he can't relate to young players but that's pretty much all he's had. Fans always remember Castro over Bartlett but forget that he rode Boof in 06 or Mijares in Sept 08. Look at all those starts he gave to young pitchers like Baker, Boof, Slowey, Lohse, Liriano, Silva, Santana. The Twins were constantly among the youngest teams in baseball, esp when they were a low payroll club. And under his watch, young guys won two MVPs, two Cy Youngs and the following young guys became all-stars - Guzman, Mays, Milton, Santana, Liriano, Mauer, Morneau, AJ and Hunter. And, when given talent, his teams won. I'm not worried about him coaching Hicks or Meyer.

  14. #34
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    I don't believe the W/L record will be the primary factor in whether Gardy comes back. The last few years have seen the Twins go away from what was called the "Twins way". Things we have lost:

    good defense
    smart base running
    small ball execution (ie sacrifices, hit-and-run)

    The attention to the little things is what made the Twins way worked. They always played smart, efficient baseball. That has been lost over the last 2-3 years. If we don't see a marked improvement on those things, Gardy will be gone regardless of the record.

  15. #35
    Junior Member Rookie JeffB's Avatar
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    So, if 2014-17 is the next era in Twins baseball, is Gardy the right guy to lead this incoming crop of rookies? Part of me thinks yes, and part of me thinks no. What do you think?

  16. #36
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    The Gardy supporters always say, look at what he was able to do all those years with little to no talent. Now they say, what do you expect him to do with so little to no talent? Anyone see a problem with that line of thinking? Also, they put the playoff record on the players, not Gardy's fault at all...but wait, if he gets credit for the division titles, cause he was a huge factor, why isn't he a huge factor in the playoff losses?

    IMO, when looking at the talent he had and comparing it to the talent in the rest of our division, the team winning so may division titles wasn't really an unbeleivable accomplishment. Does he deserve some credit, sure. Did he work miracles? No. He inherited a 2nd place team and the team won three straight titles. They were already on their way. In 2006, he had the CY Young winner, the MVP, the batting champ, a GG CF who hit 30 HR, Cuddyer, knocking in 100+RBI and a top 3 closer. He had the talent. He didn't do a 2012 Buck Showalter

    We've won the division twice in the last 6 years...one by winning less games than we did the year before when we didn't win the division, and the other in 2006, when Smith made some good moves to get actual talent in the middle IF. I predicted 94 wins before the season even started , on the Twins story boards, based on the talent we had. The should have won that many that year...and actually, should have won more if not for some bungling lineup moves by Gardy after clinching that took our momentum away going into the playoffs.

    He was a pretty good manager when he first started...he really hasn't been that good for quite a few years. 2010 MOY award was a joke...seriously..the job Francona did that year with all those injuries in that division, was way more impressive.

    My two cents, not worth much...

  17. #37
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    At the end of 2011 seasons, Gardy did an interview on ESPN 1500 where he said that players were tuning him out and getting defensive when he talked to them. He even mentioned the players being mad cause he would 'throw them under the bus' to the media. But, he put that on all the players...not anything he was doing wrong, but their issues. Sounds to me like he had lost the team...
    Last edited by ThePuck; 12-12-2012 at 08:43 PM.

  18. #38
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    At the end of 2011 seasons, Gardy did an interview on ESPN 1500 where he said that players were tuning him out and getting defensive when he talked to them. He even mentioned the players being mad cause he would 'throw them under the bus' to the media. But, he put that on all the players...not anything he was doing wrong, but their issues. Sounds to me like he had lost the team...
    I think you've put your finger on what is exactly at issue.

  19. #39
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    I've always been a Gardy supporter. I think he's a damn good manager. Not an all-time great hall-of-fame manager, but a damn good one.

    That said, it became pretty clear to me this year that it's time for a change. Seth is right, Gardy hasn't changed, but clearly, his message isn't getting through like it used to.

    There was a time when the Twins actually did battle their tails off on a regular basis. It hasn't happened the last 2 years. A staleness has set in. Sometimes when the same voice has been speaking for too long, guys just stop listening. And each new generation of players thinks differently. He doesn't seem to connect with the Pouffes the way he did with the Koskies and Cuddyers.


    Maybe that's all just a byproduct of having a bad team that loses a lot. Losing tends to bring out negativity in everyone.

    But in any case, rather than make Gardy a lame duck, they should have just ripped off the band-aid, fired him, and started with a new managerial regime.

    Gardy would get another job in a heartbeat, and it might be good for him too.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Otwins View Post
    I was thinking of Gardy when they signed Correia and all I could think of was it's time for Hawk Harrelson - He Gone
    That's about right... Gardy has done a terrific job managing the Twins since he started in 2002. He's the same person and the same manager that won an AL Manager of the Year award and finished second five times. But if it's going to be guys like Correia in his rotation or guys like we saw last year, there's not a thing he can do. No manager alive, even Larussa or Maddon could have won with the Twins issues (injury and talent) the last two seasons. It's the way baseball works, and it may be a change for change sake is good, but it won't be because Gardy suddenly became a bad manager.
    You like the musical chair mix and match, sitting the starters and using 147 different lineups each year?

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