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Thread: Article: Correia Signing is a Sad Thing

  1. #21
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    It's good to praise them when they do things right. It's also good to understand who and what you're dealing with before you look foolish for writing something so quickly, easily, obviously and predictably proven utterly wrong.
    Ryan has never been in this position before. He's never had much more than $10m to patch together a team in the offseason. While we all know he skews on the cheap side of the spectrum, there's no reason to think he was going to be this cheap. He has at least $20m to spend, probably more like $25-30m to spend. There's just no excuse for this type of signing unless he is still in the market for one of the decent arms on the market.

    And after this signing, I'm incredibly skeptical that he's going to make a splash.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    It's good to praise them when they do things right. It's also good to understand who and what you're dealing with before you look foolish for writing something so quickly, easily, obviously and predictably proven utterly wrong.
    Ryan has never been in this position before. He's never had much more than $10m to patch together a team in the offseason. While we all know he skews on the cheap side of the spectrum, there's no reason to think he was going to be this cheap. He has at least $20m to spend, probably more like $25-30m to spend. There's just no excuse for this type of signing unless he is still in the market for one of the decent arms on the market.

    And after this signing, I'm incredibly skeptical that he's going to make a splash.
    My guess, and it's only a guess, is that Ryan isn't willing to give the years to guys like Dempster, Marcum etc. The annual salary probably isn't a problem.

  3. #23
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    Anyone know how many of his strikeouts last year were against non-pitchers?

  4. #24
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    It's good to praise them when they do things right. It's also good to understand who and what you're dealing with before you look foolish for writing something so quickly, easily, obviously and predictably proven utterly wrong.
    Ryan has never been in this position before. He's never had much more than $10m to patch together a team in the offseason. While we all know he skews on the cheap side of the spectrum, there's no reason to think he was going to be this cheap. He has at least $20m to spend, probably more like $25-30m to spend. There's just no excuse for this type of signing unless he is still in the market for one of the decent arms on the market.

    And after this signing, I'm incredibly skeptical that he's going to make a splash.
    My guess, and it's only a guess, is that Ryan isn't willing to give the years to guys like Dempster, Marcum etc. The annual salary probably isn't a problem.
    Then he's not going to get a pitcher to improve the team. That's all there is to it. In this market, you can't be afraid of a three year contract or you're not going to get anyone. And given that the Twins' payroll will actually decrease next season after Morneau is gone, it's not as if a 3 year deal is going to kill the franchise.

  5. #25
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Anyone know how many of his strikeouts last year were against non-pitchers?
    Surprisingly, only 12 of those strikeouts came against pitchers.

    Even pitchers can make contact on this guy.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Anyone know how many of his strikeouts last year were against non-pitchers?
    Surprisingly, only 12 of those strikeouts came against pitchers.

    Even pitchers can make contact on this guy.
    So he strikes out batters 1-8 about as much as he strikes out pitchers...oh goody

  7. #27
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    Pitches to contact...ERA over 4.20 in the NL last year...very low strikeout rate, WHIP of almost 1.300. Hasn't have a good season since 2009 (where he pitched in the NL and in one of the best pitchers parks in baseball).


    Will fit right in.


    This is more like the Terry Ryan we know and...well...

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I don't mean to step on your guys' work here, and I'll pull down the post if you want. But it is appropriate to the discussion I think:

    From John's interview in the handbook
    JB: So you’re looking to add a top of the rotation,
    maybe not a number 1 guy, but maybe a number two
    guy or a top half of the rotation?
    TR: We’ll see. We’ll figure out how many years he’s
    looking for and how many dollars they want to get.
    JB: Are you willing to give multi-year deals to pitchers?
    TR: You aren’t going to get a pitcher unless you give a
    multi-year deal.
    JB: OK. So you’re comfortable with multi-year deals,
    too.
    TR: How many multi-years are you looking at?
    JB: Right…
    TR: Are you looking at eight? I’m not.
    JB: Probably not looking for eight?
    TR: You’re not and I’m not.
    JB: No?
    TR: No. It just depends. Age, experience, health history,
    mechanics, success, change in league.
    JB: It sounds like you’re sitting back and seeing what in
    the market comes to you, as opposed to aggressively
    chasing a couple of targets.
    TR: If I do that, we’ll probably be holding the bag. You
    know pitching is going to go off the board. We certainly
    have to be looking at it.

  9. #29
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    I notice that a lot of people seem to have this idea that they feel is fact. That idea being no pitcher wants to come play here.

    So many people seem to want to, in a roundabout way, defend signings like this by saying (as if it's 100% fact) that no one else wants to come here so that's the best he can do. Twins just started losing. They aren't perennial doormats. Pitchers aren't coming here because Ryan doesn't value them enough to pay what the market has become, not because Minnesota is the leper colony of the US.

    Most of the time, a players signs where they get the most money.

  10. #30
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    I don't mean to step on your guys' work here, and I'll pull down the post if you want. But it is appropriate to the discussion I think:

    From John's interview in the handbook
    JB: So you’re looking to add a top of the rotation,
    maybe not a number 1 guy, but maybe a number two
    guy or a top half of the rotation?
    TR: We’ll see. We’ll figure out how many years he’s
    looking for and how many dollars they want to get.
    JB: Are you willing to give multi-year deals to pitchers?
    TR: You aren’t going to get a pitcher unless you give a
    multi-year deal.
    JB: OK. So you’re comfortable with multi-year deals,
    too.
    TR: How many multi-years are you looking at?
    JB: Right…
    TR: Are you looking at eight? I’m not.
    JB: Probably not looking for eight?
    TR: You’re not and I’m not.
    JB: No?
    TR: No. It just depends. Age, experience, health history,
    mechanics, success, change in league.
    JB: It sounds like you’re sitting back and seeing what in
    the market comes to you, as opposed to aggressively
    chasing a couple of targets.
    TR: If I do that, we’ll probably be holding the bag. You
    know pitching is going to go off the board. We certainly
    have to be looking at it.
    That's fine with me. Just so long as you don't post a substantial portion of the interview (say, a page), I'm cool with posting fragments relevant to the conversation at hand.

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    This deal doesn't magically get better if they sign Sanchez. No amount of makeup fixes this pig. They dumped 5 mil this year on a backend NL starter with no upside and tremendous downside. They even managed to foolishly commit another 5 mil to next years payroll for this garbage. It is a bad contract to a bad player, no subsequent moves will fix that.

    Funny to hear the tune change here. Pretty much everything I said in the wake of the Baker deal has proven to be spot on. This article should taste like an awful lot of crow for many around here. The myths of this offseason turning this team into a contender are coming to fruition in exactly the wayreasonable minds would expect. Good trades though - that's our JR!

  12. #32
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    Lowest strikeout rate among right-handed pitchers the last two years. (per Gleeman)

  13. #33
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    I don't know what you guys are so upset about, the Twins just nabbed an All-Star pitcher!

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I'm not going to get to worked up about it. 5 million dollars a year is something you can swallow even if he does suck. I'd much rather see them do this then overpay out the ass for Ryan Dumpster.

    Let's see who else he brings in this off-season before we call for his head, both of his trades so far have been great and his signings last off-season were all pretty good as well (sans Marquis- who btw actually preformed very well once he left the Twins)

    As long as we can get a Jackson/Marcum/Sanchez to add onto this, I won't be to upset about Correia slotting in the 5 spot.

  15. #35
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    This deal doesn't magically get better if they sign Sanchez. No amount of makeup fixes this pig. They dumped 5 mil this year on a backend NL starter with no upside and tremendous downside. They even managed to foolishly commit another 5 mil to next years payroll for this garbage. It is a bad contract to a bad player, no subsequent moves will fix that.

    Funny to hear the tune change here. Pretty much everything I said in the wake of the Baker deal has proven to be spot on. This article should taste like an awful lot of crow for many around here. The myths of this offseason turning this team into a contender are coming to fruition in exactly the way reasonable minds would expect. Good trades though - that's our JR!
    "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill.

    Congratulations.

  16. #36
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    Signing a good pitcher would be a good thing, but that does not make signing this guy a good thing. It is a bad signing, especially for a budget conscious team.

  17. #37
    To me it feels like a Jason Marquis deal. So, the Twins are going to have a rotation made up of guys that are no better than #3 on most other rosters in the league...again?

    This signing irks me considering that KC just signed James Shields. K f******C! The Twins don't have the pieces to do something like that - to sign someone who could actually be a legitimate #1?

    I got to thinking about Torii Hunter's comments a few seasons ago when talking about the Twins: "Sometimes I think they have that small mind over there, in that organization."

  18. #38
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdag23 View Post
    To me it feels like a Jason Marquis deal. So, the Twins are going to have a rotation made up of guys that are no better than #3 on most other rosters in the league...again?

    This signing irks me considering that KC just signed James Shields. K f******C! The Twins don't have the pieces to do something like that - to sign someone who could actually be a legitimate #1?

    I got to thinking about Torii Hunter's comments a few seasons ago when talking about the Twins: "Sometimes I think they have that small mind over there, in that organization."
    The Royals didn't sign James Shields, they traded the best hitting prospect in baseball to get him....

  19. #39
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    If Correia is a three, this is an awesome deal. He is not even a five. He is one of the three worst starters in baseball the last two years.

  20. #40
    I'm not going to totally rip this deal because in my estimation the Twins needed 1 back of the rotation SP to fill the gap until Gibson was ready. I may have preferred Brett Myers because we could have moved him back to the bullpen but then we'd be paying a reliever around $7mil/year for 2-3 years. If you look at the short-term, low money SP options you have names like Liriano, Jurrjens, Bedard, Braden, Garcia, Harden, Pavano, Pinero, etc. The other option would have been just using Deduno or DeVries as the #5. So, considering those options I'd actally trust in TR's scouting in finding the best of available option which in this case is Correia.

    Now, let's see where we go from here, we still need a top (near top) of the rotation SP and a middle infielder and the two I'd prefer are Marcum and Drew. If TR can't lure in any of these caliber players then we may as well trade Willingham and Morneau. I'm interested to see what happens with Seattle. They've been attached to every free agent hitter but so far have struck out. If Seattle misses out on Hamilton and Swisher how much do you think they'd offer for Willingham, Carroll, and Morneau?

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