Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 103

Thread: Article: On Paradigms and Kevin Correia

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,606
    Like
    68
    Liked 380 Times in 233 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy H View Post
    The 32-year-old, who had a 51.2 percent ground-ball rate, which ranked tied for seventh in the National League.
    You say that like it's a good thing. The Twins play in a flyball friendly park and possibly have the worst infield defense in the league. Groundball pitchers for the Twins are going to get eaten alive in 2013. Unearned runs will lose you games just as often as earned runs, this defense needs strikeout pitchers and this guy is the exact opposite of that.

  2. #22
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,718
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 564 Times in 369 Posts
    You just suggested that the Twins are not cheap. Would you like to offer evidence of that? Yes, that is a Covey story. This is a terrible signing. There is no paradigm shift fans could make to view this through a different lens that leads to a different conclusion. I am willing to listen/read if someone has one.

  3. #23
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,126
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,598 Times in 831 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The Twins play in a flyball friendly park and possibly have the worst infield defense in the league.
    *cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    3,354
    Like
    1,311
    Liked 1,295 Times in 749 Posts
    Oh, what I'd give to know what unsuccessful offers the Twins have made.

    Did they simply misread the market and fail to open the checkbook when middle-tier pitchers were signing early or are pitchers really that adverse to signing in Minnesota? Are they now just desperate? Are they trying to keep the payroll below $85 million.

    How I wish I knew what was really going on here.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
    Posts
    2,783
    Like
    666
    Liked 384 Times in 214 Posts
    Blog Entries
    10
    ''We want the kind of pitchers we haven't had enough of," Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "Pitchers who can miss bats."
    Worley and Correia?

  6. #26
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,606
    Like
    68
    Liked 380 Times in 233 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The Twins play in a flyball friendly park and possibly have the worst infield defense in the league.
    *cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*
    Well you got me there. At least their GM understands pitch-to-contact arms don't work well with a terrible defense and employ four starters with a K/9 of +7.5.

  7. #27
    It might just be the best that the Twins will be able to attract this season. We have to wait and see how the non-tenders pan out (hell, Humber signed for less than a million, you could have had Francis and Marquis for $3 million each, Pavano is shaking the trees for $3 million). At this rate, though, I would have made a much better offer to Baker or even reupped him for $9+ million. Are the Twins basically the last resort some players are looking at, along with Houston and Miami? We should still be on par or above THE ROYALS. The money is there. There is enough to get two starters and a bonafide infielder. And we managed to trade for a few studs (not all ready yet). I think our biggest gripe is that not only will we eat Blackburns $5.5 million this year as wasted money, but do the same in 2014 with Correia, who will just be a place filler. Is he a bad pitcher? Our offense and defense will make that decision. But if we are going to WASTE -- and that's the magic word "WASTE" -- money signing some free agents, would we, as fans, rather see the Twins spend nothing at all.
    Joel Thingvall
    www.thingvall.com
    rosterman at www.twinscards.com

  8. #28
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,126
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,598 Times in 831 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    The Twins play in a flyball friendly park and possibly have the worst infield defense in the league.
    *cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*
    Well you got me there. At least their GM understands pitch-to-contact arms don't work well with a terrible defense and employ four starters with a K/9 of +7.5.
    Fair enough.

    Right now, the 2013 Twins are still probably a better team than the 2012 Twins... By one or two games.

    Sigh. I don't understand what Ryan was thinking with this "acquisition".

  9. #29
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,606
    Like
    68
    Liked 380 Times in 233 Posts
    I would have rather had Pavano at that price, and Pavano's not deluded enough to think he's going to get a two year deal.

    The worst part about this deal is, unlike Marquis, with that 2nd year attached, no way will the Twins DFA him in June if he's getting lit up and a minor leaguer is kicking down the door ready for his chance. He's probably untradeable as well unless the Twins eat most of his contract.

    So the rotation thus far: Worley, Diamond, Correia, Hendriks, Gibson. Assuming the Twins DO sign another FA starter, Hendricks or Gibson are starting in Rochester or the pen. What happens if everyone stays healthy and the odd man out pitches lights out and deserves a rotation spot? Do the Twins really have it in them to toss their new $10 million starter in the bullpen that quickly? Doubt it. No move would have been better than this move.

  10. #30
    Junior Member Rookie
    Posts
    10
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Can we outright him to AAA to add depth to our farm system? Seriously, how is he any better than Walters. Swarzak, Devries, etc? I've been on board with TR's moves up to this point. If you've decided 2013 is a wash, then don't make this move. If you want to go for it in a division that isn't deep, there are ample opportunities to grab a #2 and spend some money. But don't play the band aid approach as you are wasting your owner's money and fans time.

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,832
    Twitter
    @Sheradoodles
    Like
    1,427
    Liked 1,943 Times in 1,138 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is 6:30am too early to start drinking or to late to stop?
    As the saying goes ... it's 5 o' clock somewhere.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
    Posts
    599
    Like
    77
    Liked 113 Times in 68 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS View Post
    Day and Night TR talks....each word more useless then the next.... give me cancer now god!
    Hank!

    I will assume the minority role here and say, let's wait and see how he does before we crucify Ryan.

  13. #33
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,608
    Like
    3,682
    Liked 3,170 Times in 1,357 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Right now, the 2013 Twins are still probably a better team than the 2012 Twins...
    That's dubious, at best.

    No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.

    The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.

    I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.

  14. #34
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,126
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,598 Times in 831 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Right now, the 2013 Twins are still probably a better team than the 2012 Twins...
    That's dubious, at best.

    No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.

    The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.

    I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.
    I think you're underestimating just how bad the starting rotation was in 2012. The rotation was 29th in baseball in ERA while the bullpen was 17th in ERA while pitching the third most innings. Stabilize that rotation at all and you're looking at a much better overall ERA because so many of those bullpen innings won't be going to the Jeff Grays of the world, dragging down the bullpen ERA.

    This team is still bad, there's not doubt about it. But I'd wager that just the Worley acquisition makes them slightly better overall (and there's a chance Correia contributes something, though I wouldn't bet on it). The offense has certainly taken a knock and while some guys are due to regress, there's also room for improvement in some areas (a full season of Parmelee vs. Revere, Morneau continuing to adjust, etc.).

    I don't buy into the argument that they're actually worse. The pitching staff, particularly in the first half of 2012, was historically terrible.

  15. #35
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,608
    Like
    3,682
    Liked 3,170 Times in 1,357 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Right now, the 2013 Twins are still probably a better team than the 2012 Twins...
    That's dubious, at best.

    No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.

    The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.

    I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.
    I think you're underestimating just how bad the starting rotation was in 2012. The rotation was 29th in baseball in ERA while the bullpen was 17th in ERA while pitching the third most innings. Stabilize that rotation at all and you're looking at a much better overall ERA because so many of those bullpen innings won't be going to the Jeff Grays of the world, dragging down the bullpen ERA.

    This team is still bad, there's not doubt about it. But I'd wager that just the Worley acquisition makes them slightly better overall (and there's a chance Correia contributes something, though I wouldn't bet on it). The offense has certainly taken a knock and while some guys are due to regress, there's also room for improvement in some areas (a full season of Parmelee vs. Revere, Morneau continuing to adjust, etc.).

    I don't buy into the argument that they're actually worse. The pitching staff, particularly in the first half of 2012, was historically terrible.
    I guess we'll see. 60% of that rotation is still in place, and I don't see how adding Correia fixes any of the other 40%. Worley is no sure thing either.

    im also of the opinion the Twins are done adding FA starters, so there's that.

  16. #36
    This just makes no sense. Why not just go with Deduno, DeVries or even Blackburn. Correia is very much like Blackburn. So 10 million this year for bad pitchers Blackburn and Correia. And another wasted 5 million next year.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    301
    Like
    0
    Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I don't think people understand just how badthis offense could be.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
    Posts
    666
    Like
    199
    Liked 33 Times in 22 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Very difficult to see an upside here. Deduno would be more interesting.

  19. #39
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
    Posts
    8,679
    Like
    2,655
    Liked 3,306 Times in 1,754 Posts
    Blog Entries
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by drivlikejehu View Post
    No, this is really that bad. It's not an overreaction to say so. The killer is 2014; Correia will have been blasted out of the rotation by then, but it's $5 million down the drain for a season that is hopefully when things can finally head in a positive direction.
    This is the pipe dream people continue to cling to, that 2014 means anything. It's been clear for several weeks now that 2015 is the target date for serious contention. 2014 is when the team turns the corner, but should not be expected to really go places quite yet. 2013 is all about laying groundwork where it is possible, and otherwise riding it out with as presentable a team as possible. Two-year signings (and guys such as Willingham who will be with us in that period) will make sense in this last light, and have no bearing on the real story of 2015.

    I'm not thrilled with Correia, as I was hoping for somewhat better "hold the fort" signings, but ultimately the $10M spent will not hold the team back in either year.

  20. #40
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
    Posts
    8,679
    Like
    2,655
    Liked 3,306 Times in 1,754 Posts
    Blog Entries
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is 6:30am too early to start drinking or to late to stop?
    That one goes into my quotes file. Thanks.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.