Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 189

Thread: Article: Twins To Sign RHP Kevin Correia

  1. #101
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,629
    Like
    850
    Liked 611 Times in 235 Posts
    No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  2. #102
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.
    The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

    With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

    I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

    And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
    I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.

  3. #103
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Gotta hand it to you Riverbrian...you really give it your all to back Ryan's moves. Way to stick to your guns
    Thank You Puck... Terry Ryan once ran directly at a Mountain Lion that had me cornered. I've had his back ever since.

    Seriously... This ain't so much defense of TR... It's more like balance... Correia is being over cooked here. I've spent a lot of time on this site and I appreciate all the posters but I've detected a slight glimpse of embellishment and emotion from time to time. Or maybe that's just me.
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 12-11-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  4. #104
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is Kevin Correia actually Jason Marquis? I'm looking through their stat lines and they're basically the exact same guy.

    What on earth is Ryan thinking?
    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.
    Good for Correia that he wasn't capable of the other worldly and historically colossal decrepitude that Nick Blackburn is. For a metaphorical visual of that comparison, a 4 looks a lot sexier when standing next to a 1....and yet it's still a 4.
    Yeah... That's kinda my point... But we have posters here who are calling this signing Blackburn esque. I was pointing out that... that is embellishment at a fairly large degree.

  5. #105
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.
    The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

    With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

    I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

    And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
    I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.
    I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.

  6. #106
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
    Posts
    3,629
    Like
    850
    Liked 611 Times in 235 Posts
    So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal?
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ballÖ and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

  7. #107
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.
    Than Why all the screaming?

  8. #108
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

    Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?

  9. #109
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal?
    Snepp... Snepp... It was directed at those who are comparing him to Blackburm.... That's embellishment!!!

  10. #110
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post

    Jeez Brock... Marquis strikes out more hitters than Correia does. Surely you can see that.

    To everyone... These Marquis and Blackburn comparisons are a little over the top.

    Blackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.

    Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.

    Comparing with Marquis... I find it hard to compare Marquis in Minnesota with Marquis in San Diego.

    This mob will continue to mob... It's how it works... I get that and reading the responses has been fun.
    The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.

    With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.

    I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.

    And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
    I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.
    I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.
    He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.

  11. #111
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

    Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?
    To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.

  12. #112
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

    Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?
    To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.
    Seems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...

  13. #113
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    [QUOTE=ThePuck;70420]
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian;70414

    I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.[/QUOTE

    He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.
    Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.

  14. #114
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '

    Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?
    To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.
    Seems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...
    Me included... However... Marcum and Jackson were not overwhelmingly better stat wise in 2012.

  15. #115
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    [QUOTE=Riverbrian;70423]
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian;70414

    I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.[/QUOTE

    He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.
    Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.
    yeah, James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low...and lower than last year, his lowest in 3 years

    A miracle.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 12-11-2012 at 07:44 PM.

  16. #116
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Marcum hasn't had an ERA over 3.70 in 4 years...two of those years in the AL East. He also Ks some people.. ERA+ over 110 last 4 years. Jackson, slightly less impressive...both way better than Correia.

    We aren't asking much...

  17. #117
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    [QUOTE=ThePuck;70426]
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian;70414

    I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.[/QUOTE

    He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.
    Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.
    yeah, James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low.

    A miracle.
    I'm a huge Bill James Fan... When he started doing his thing... He had the balls to keep doing it in the face of everyone telling him it was garbage... It didn't stop him and look what happened... He changed baseball.

    However... Bill still hasn't figured out how to project with absolute certainly so we can take it with a grain of salt.

  18. #118
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
    Posts
    7,042
    Like
    1,189
    Liked 682 Times in 439 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    Marcum hasn't had an ERA over 3.70 in 4 years...two of those years in the AL East. He also Ks some people.. ERA+ over 110 last 4 years. Jackson, slightly less impressive...both way better than Correia.

    We aren't asking much...
    No doubt on Marcum... And Jackson... I'd like them both and I'd settle for one and I don't care what it costs. I think our difference in opinion is going to hinge on the "way better" part.

  19. #119
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I'm a huge Bill James Fan... When he started doing his thing... He had the balls to keep doing it in the face of everyone telling him it was garbage... It didn't stop him and look what happened... He changed baseball.

    However... Bill still hasn't figured out how to project with absolute certainly so we can take it with a grain of salt.
    Yeah, unfortunately, he really hasn't done a good job over the years at projecting...but, like you, I'm still a fan

  20. #120
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,232
    Like
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Sabathia had an ERA+ of 124 this year. Gavin Floyd had an ERA+ of 101. 23 point difference. Were they close?

    23 point difference between Marcum and Correia in ERA+ last year...33 in 2011...47 in 2010.

Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.